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submitted 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago) by iluminae@lemmy.world to c/asklemmy@lemmy.world

Hi Lemmy, My HOA sent out a email saying dogs are no longer allowed on any grass in common areas or front yards including grass between sidewalk and curb which is.... everywhere except our own tiny backyards. The reasoning is some dog urine effected dead spots. Honestly I didn't even notice them, it's 95° here and all the grass looks sad.

It's a walking town and we are not a gated community, non-residents walk their dogs here all the time, so this rule can only punish those who live here and has no ability to effect others.

Anyway, this seems like a 'we have tried nothing and we are all out of ideas!' moment so I wanted to see if anyone here had any suggestions I can pass on to maintain a "good" curb appeal ground cover-wise while allowing dogs to do normal dog stuff.

I can converse with the HOA board in good faith, but this rule is basically banning dogs from the neighborhood - which I super did not sign up for.

Pertainent info: PA, USA - Town Home style homes - small central common grass - owned for 8y.

Edit: it seems like people may have glossed over the question part and skipped straight to HOA bashing (which is warranted at times!) so I will rephrase:

What ground covering or neighborhood solutions to similar (perceived) issues have other communities employed?

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[-] planish@sh.itjust.works 96 points 2 years ago

Check to make sure that the HOA actually has the power to do this. As a land owner you are bound to follow the covenants that run with the land, but you are only actually bound to follow those covenants. You don't have to do random stuff just because the HOA board or even a majority of the HOA voters say so, you only actually have to do what's in the covenants.

Unless the covenants say that you agree to follow a bunch of dog-related rules to be defined later, you almost certainly are allowed to park your dog in your own front yard or in that of any consenting neighbor.

[-] mysoulishome@lemmy.world 14 points 2 years ago

The HOA can pass an amendment or addendum to the covenants at any point, which then instantly enacts the rule and gives them the power to fine you and put a lien on your property if you don’t pay…with the caveat that I’m speaking about in the USA. Do other countries have HOA’s? You could go to a meeting or take them to court of course.

[-] rammer@sopuli.xyz 24 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

Most other countries do not have HOAs. In Finland where I live, municipalities can enact ordinances to limit what you can do on your property, but they are often very limited if they exist at all. The most restrictive ones that I know limit the type of house that can be built (eg. no flat roofs, although this can be a zoning issue as well), the color of the houses and other similar limitations.

I'll take my socialdemocrat hell hole of a country over the "free" USA with HOAs any time.

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[-] SymphonicResonance@lemmy.world 76 points 2 years ago

Clearly the solution to start owning wolves.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 21 points 2 years ago
[-] Decoy321@lemmy.world 54 points 2 years ago

How the fuck are they going to enforce this?

[-] NaibofTabr@infosec.pub 69 points 2 years ago

You're assuming the point is to stop it. It's far more likely the point is to create an excuse for issuing fines.

[-] Neato@kbin.social 34 points 2 years ago

As John Oliver showed: ridiculous fines and if you don't pay then they foreclose on your house.

[-] Semi-Hemi-Demigod@kbin.social 25 points 2 years ago

I'm sure there's some nosy old biddies who would love an excuse to take a picture of every dog that pisses where they can see it

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[-] Mamertine@lemmy.world 38 points 2 years ago

Find out when the next meeting is. Tell them you're going to attend.

Organize all the other dog owners and all of you attend. Explain why the new rule is a burden on you all. Explain what you want. Listen to their reasoning. Come to an agreeable compromise.

[-] FARTYSHARTBLAST@kbin.social 37 points 2 years ago

Move to a place that is not in an HOA because fuck HOAs.

[-] _CottonCandyUnicorn_@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

I truly don't understand how HOAs aren't illegal. Or at the very least restricted.

[-] driving_crooner@lemmy.eco.br 16 points 2 years ago

Local governments love HOAs and they are only giving construction permits to HOA communities. Why they love it? Easy, they onload the government duties of maintaining infrastructure on the HOAs, who charge a "tax" that doesn't risks the political career of the elected officials.

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[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 36 points 2 years ago

A complicating factor: I would say ~50% of the houses are rented and only the homeowners have a say in HOA matters. So, assuming any owners without dogs (including the whole board) and any landlord would logically vote to ban all use of the grass, while all dog-owning homeowners would vote to allow dogs near the grass.

Obviously that's generalizing what the votes would be - even though the majority of the houses have dogs, I would say the minority are homeowners with dogs.

The reason I bring this up is a petition-style response may be dismissed as "well those dog owners have no say as they are not homeowners"

[-] Lemjukes@lemm.ee 32 points 2 years ago

So the AKC has this page that lists about half a dozen alternatives to outright banning dogs on grass.

https://www.akc.org/expert-advice/home-living/dog-pee-killing-grass/

I agree this very much sounds like the HOA taking the laziest route possible at the expense of it's residents.

But also, fuck HOAs. Get on the board and take that shit down from the inside, only reliable way to destroy those parasites.

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[-] joel_feila@lemmy.world 29 points 2 years ago

Former real estate agent here

All you can do is talk to the hoa board. That is it. If they won't listen then you have no options. Other then pointing out this wont solve the problem and only punish members. Good luck.

[-] hoch@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

no LEGAL options

FTFY

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[-] itsshortstuff@lemm.ee 26 points 2 years ago

I've read some folks being a bottle of water on walks to dilute the pee so it's less likely to ruin grass. But in fairness if some dog pee is ruining grass, owners are not watering their lawns enough. There are plenty of dogs in my neighborhood that are walked and I don't think there are many pee spot issues.

But even better would be to not use grass :) uses too much water in the first place hehe

[-] SgtAStrawberry@lemmy.world 19 points 2 years ago

As someone not from the US. What in the world are you guys doing with your grass that makes it need watering and gets ruined by dog pee?

I have lived around dogs my entire life and never seen any grass get miscolourd by their pee.

[-] Blackmist@feddit.uk 16 points 2 years ago

I'd guess it's the building cities in the inhospitable desert that does it.

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[-] sturmblast@lemmy.world 25 points 2 years ago

shit like this is the reason I will never ever participate in an HOA

[-] paholg@lemm.ee 24 points 2 years ago

Is this legal? My understanding is that the strip of grass between the sidewalk and street is "semi-private", in that the homeowner has to maintain it, but that the city actually owns it.

I'd check local laws and see if the HOA has any right to restrict dogs there.

[-] bustrpoindextr@lemmy.world 16 points 2 years ago

HOAs have excessive rights especially newer ones and this is probably actually legal. The city likely owns none of it btw.

HOAs are a blight on American home ownership, John Oliver did a segment on it, but new HOA contracts are crazy if you haven't had a peek at one.

[-] Heavybell@lemmy.world 22 points 2 years ago

I am still confused how these "home owner associations" have any legal right to tell you to do anything…

[-] elscallr@lemmy.world 10 points 2 years ago

When you buy the house you sign a contract giving them authority over certain things. You're bound by the terms of the contract.

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[-] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 20 points 2 years ago

HOAs often impose yard upkeep rules on owners. I have a buddy whose front yard grass keeps dying from dog walkers letting their dogs pee in his yard, and then as an insult to injury, the HOA cites him.

It'd be ideal if your neighborhood had a dog park established as an alternative, but honestly, this rule is on the more agreeable side as far as HOAs go.

[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 24 points 2 years ago

Oh wow I read a functional ban on dogs as extreme rather than agreeable - that's interesting.

[-] wesker@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 2 years ago

I'm of the opinion that more often than not, dog owners suck for everyone around them. They typically suck so much, that dog owners don't often even like other dog owners. But the problem is that the individual dog owner can't see that they themselves probably suck.

So, I personally find strict rules about their impact on a neighborhood agreeable.

[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

Interesting perspective. Other than being mad that dogs exist and inconsistent grass color I can't imagine other slights dog owners are applying to the neighborhood. Maybe barking? But that has never really been a issue here, to my knowledge.

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[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 11 points 2 years ago* (last edited 2 years ago)

You're not wrong, but I'd offer a slightly more generalized version: People suck.

There's a forest near my house that has a public trail network and it's explicitly marked as an on-leash area at every point of entrance. About 90% of dog owners seem to think they're the exception to the rule. 20% immediately leash their dog when they come across other people, 30% have aggressive dogs that the owners don't seem capable of or interested in controlling, and the rest are somewhere between the two.

Maybe it's a localized phenomenon, but it's telling that most of them think the rules shouldn't apply to themselves.

(And before anyone says I'm biased, I like dogs!)

[-] FireTower@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

The ideal solution is that HOAs be abolished op lives in a community where 50% of the residents are held to a collective standard they have no say in that's enforced by those who's qualifications are they've nothing better to do with their time. The idea that HOAs increase property value is a scam.

[-] mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works 12 points 2 years ago

This. States need to start banning HOA's

[-] iluminae@lemmy.world 18 points 2 years ago

In an additional effort to refocus this thread to ground cover, has anyone here in the northeast US gone with a clover ground cover, rather than grass?

[-] silentknyght@lemmy.world 17 points 2 years ago

Why not put down mulch and native perennials? Skip fussy turf grass altogether.

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[-] NegativeLookBehind@kbin.social 16 points 2 years ago

Set all the grass on fire. Boom, no more grass.

[-] malloc@lemmy.world 15 points 2 years ago

You have been living there for 8 yrs. Is this the first time the board has been unreasonable? If not, you might not have much recourse. Except for becoming president of the HOA and changing by-laws yourself. Unfortunately, HOAs in America are fucking weird she mostly unregulated which leads to these power tripping people.

If so, I would converse with them and present the same arguments you posted here.

In both cases, it would help if you can get your neighbors on the same page and agree. If more than half of the neighbors come to the consensus that it’s unreasonable, could easily force the board’s hand and revert. If they don’t bend, I would then ask your neighbors to re-elect the board. If at this point, you would need to check your HOA by-laws since it wildly differs across the USA.

[-] AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 12 points 2 years ago

I know this is more of a petty answer, but if the head of your HOA lives in the HOA and you know where, have your dog deliberately shit in their yard if there are no security cameras. Early in the morning, be sure to take pictures as proof there was a dog in their grass at some point.

If enough people in the area start doing it, the rule will either change or you can start complaining like Hell that the head is of HOA isn't following the rules and hope that changes things. If not, and you are willing to be locked away, arson on the HOA owners' home (if they live in the HOA) isn't a bad option either, assuming you start the fire in their bedroom so they can burn to death.

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[-] theKalash@feddit.ch 10 points 2 years ago

Collect all your dogshit and dump it in the yard of the HOA president.

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this post was submitted on 04 Sep 2023
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