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submitted 2 months ago by usernamesAreTricky@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml
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[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

I am so completely sympathetic to her cause, but handling & transporting sick chickens is so fucking dangerous. I don’t give a damn about the theft, but she risked her own life, the lives of others, and any other animals they came into contact with.

I also want to see the abolition of slaughterhouses and factory farms, but I think the best way to do that right now is to fight for subsidies for vat grown meat alternatives. And fight states like Florida trying to outlaw vat grown meat.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Subsidies for meat alternatives are a very liberal non-solution. The tech is not there for meat outside of ground beef and the state shouldn't be subsidizing to create a different problem, the issue with the USA's ridiculous meat overproduction and consumption isn't that there's a slaughter in the process, it's that the amount of manpower/water/energy required is ridiculous. The subsidies should be substantially reduced for meat and dairy, and price controls (or outright government handouts) should be in place for staple foodstuffs.

If grains and legumes become cheaper, people will find a way to make them tastier and eat them way more often.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

If you can only consider solutions that require everyone to give up eating meat, you will never get enough people on board.

[-] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 4 points 2 months ago

They said nothing about everyone giving up on meat.

We don't have infinite resources on our finite planet. People need to eat less meat. They stated some ways to encourage that transition.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Eating meat doesn’t sustain some kind of curse. It’s an environmental problem because of current factory farming methods. They’ve invented a better method, and you’re sticking to your guns as if it’s the act of eating causing the pollution, and not the production methods. Moronic.

[-] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It is an environmental problem because the resources required to obtain the same caloric/nutritional content from meat is far higher than the alternatives. If the "better method" is better than our current method of meat production but still too intensive to maintain at scale then it doesn't solve the problem without reducing the scale of meat consumption.

That doesn't mean nobody can eat meat, it just means that on average people need to eat LESS meat.

Why are you so against people eating less meat? Your arguments here are akin to the "nuclear energy" bros who rag on renewables all day. Just like we can use renewables and rely on nuclear to fill any gaps, we can lessen meat consumption and rely on less intensive forms of meat production to fill the gaps.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 2 points 2 months ago

That’s simply not true. The energy cost for beef is astronomical.

How do you plan to enforce less meat consumption?

[-] queermunist@lemmy.ml 2 points 2 months ago

Rationing. No store is allowed to sell more than X amount of meat to any individual.

It'd create black markets and such, but the overall consumption would still go down.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

You can want that all day. Still an absolutely unworkable plan. If you actually care about the environment, work towards realistic goals instead of letting perfect be the enemy of good.

[-] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

What did I say that isn't true? I never said the energy cost of beef wasn't huge. Quite the opposite in fact...

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Maybe I misread. So what’s your plan to enforce it?

[-] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Within our current political-economic system? End subsidies for farmed meat, subsidize alternatives, and raise awareness on the issue as well as about health effects of excess meat consumption.

This will have the "push" effect of driving up farmed meat prices while having the "pull" effects of cheaper, healthier alternatives. There is nothing in particular to enforce.

Edit: and as the market on farmed meat becomes less profitable producers will leave the industry as well which leads to a sort of "spiral" as scarcity goes up, raising prices, pushing more away.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Exactly. And subsidizing vat grown meat is a great way to supercharge those efforts.

But it’s also has a lot of people outing their true intentions. A lot of folks who claimed they advocated for meatless diets for environmental reasons still oppose vat grown meat. Because really they just want to force their preference on others.

[-] IttihadChe@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

If nobody lessened their consumption habits and just switched to "vat grown meat", that would not solve the core of the problem. While less resource intensive than farm grown meat, it's still resource intensive.

As I said before, it can exist to fill the voids left by other solutions, but it is not a solution in and of itself. For this reason it should not be the priority as the priority should be on growing/promoting other less intensive alternatives and lessening consumption itself.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

The type of resources matters. Not using the same amount of land and grain needed for living animals is a significant impact.

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 months ago

I have a solution: don't give up meat and you collapse the fucking ecosystem and then you'll give up meat because you'll be starving to death

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

The fact that a better alternative is becoming available, and y’all are still insisting the only possible option is giving up meat entirely, really proves that it’s not about the environment and y’all just want to force your choices on everyone else.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

It's not available. It's an expensive, comparatively hands-on process that can only produce good ground beef and shitty everything else.

You know something that tastes like meat, has the texture of meat, and has the nutritional qualities of meat? Fucking meat, which you could still have if you really wanted it, you'd just have to do it once every few weeks instead of twice a day.

Failing that, there's already a high protein meat substitute that has good texture, flavor and is super cheap in terms of labor and water, it's called a mushroom.

it really proves that it's not about the environment and y'all just want to force your choices

Lmao. Believe it or not, most people don't give a single shit about your dietary choices. I love meat myself, if lab grown meat were as good, could be as cheap, or as labor efficient, I'd be all for it like I am for, say, nuclear. But it just ain't so, this futurist fetishism that some libs have is so fucking ridiculous and it's really telling that when people tell you why it's just not feasible your first instinct is to go "you're literally 1984ing me rn"

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Uh huh. So unfeasible, but Big Ag lobbyists are working to get it banned in multiple states (already successful in Florida)? Something doesn’t add up.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

trying to ban the competition is just business as usual in the US, that's ridiculously far from lab grown meat being a viable alternative.

Again, you can make fine burger meat with that process, anything else is fucking shit at the moment. It probably will get better eventually, but who knows how long it'll be and there's other sources of protein readily available already that don't entail giving enormous subsidies to yet another fucking corporation.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

If it’s not a viable alternative, it’s not competition. Pick a lane.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

Jfc are you 9? They attempt to ban prospective competition, it doesn't need to actually have significant market cap. The point is to strangle stuff in the cradle.

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

“Prospective.” It’s already being stocked in some stores.

[-] Grapho@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 months ago

Oh my, they have burger patties in the store? Wagyu beef and USDA Choice ribeye sellers must be shaking in their boots. Run and tell Tyson, if they subsidize lab grown meat nobody will buy a single chicken breast again now that there's the option to buy a vegan burger for the same price a regular burger used to cost!

[-] surph_ninja@lemmy.world 1 points 2 months ago

Tyson already knows, and has been spending millions to get it banned before they can’t compete with it.

You should let them know you’re a market genius, and save them those millions.

[-] chetradley@lemm.ee 2 points 2 months ago

And not buying stuff that comes from slaughterhouses and factory farms.

[-] arsCynic@beehaw.org 3 points 2 months ago

Look at that brave manly man arresting such a danger to the god-fearing, Jesus-loving, for-profit US society.

- -
✍︎ arscyni.cc: modernity ∝ nature.

this post was submitted on 15 May 2025
62 points (100.0% liked)

United States | News & Politics

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