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Protestation (discuss.tchncs.de)
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[-] H1jAcK@lemm.ee 94 points 2 months ago
[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 43 points 2 months ago

A bunch of people thinking they outsmarted the meme by asking "who made capitalism".

A better question is "when you say humans are a virus, which humans exactly do you propose to exterminate in the name of saving the planet?" Because the bunker-state ethnonationalist, the trumpists, the Peter Thiels and the Mark Andreesens, the Dark Enlightenment and Network State and Tech Zionism neofascists, they know exactly what they mean.

The earth is big enough to support modest human life. It's not big enough to support billionaires' delusions of singularity. So they imagine to purge the parts of humanity that are not their particular version of white.

Don't fall for their fascist propaganda.

[-] creamlike504@jlai.lu 9 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

When I said "humans are the virus," I think people heard "so we should kill the people I don't like," and missed the part where I don't like all humans.

I don't say it anymore, because I don't want to be overlapped with fascists who apparently say the same thing.

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[-] gofsckyourself@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

I'm sure the rhetoric stems from propaganda, I won't disagree there. But I don't think that trying to logic the analogy itself is the way to outline the problem with it.

Calling humans a 'virus' may not mean an extermination is the intention of the person regurgitating it. You can control a virus instead of just exterminating it, for example. It's just a term people are familiar with that they associate with abusing resources and multiplying beyond a sustainable level, thus creating a toxic environment around them.

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[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 42 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

You don't need capitalism to suck, though. The Spanish conquistadores were slavers and genocidal murderers but they certainly weren't capitalists.

[-] stickly@lemmy.world 12 points 2 months ago

There's a bit of a fundamental difference between capitalism and other systems. Mercantilism sucked but conquistadors got some level of pushback for their atrocities. The Spanish crown fought a war over illegal slavery and the vast majority of conquistadors died poor or in obscurity.

Modern capitalism has no such brakes. Naked avarice is the mathematically correct play, exponentially growing the power of an individual at the expense of literally everyone else.

It's not likely that other economic systems could result in this level of global instability and ecological collapse. A king used to have some incentive to keep his society functioning; his personal power was tied to the power his kingdom could project, not his personal wealth. Our modern overlords have no problem destroying their country or environment, their wealth is fungible and can be taken wherever they want.

[-] RockBottom@feddit.org 9 points 2 months ago

Every system finds ways to shift the blame. What they need are folks who drink the cool aide. Currently it‘s capitalism.

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[-] nexguy@lemmy.world 33 points 2 months ago

If humans weren't greedy dicks then capitalism or any other form of government would work perfectly. You can't force humans to not be greedy dicks. No matter what system is being instituted it is susceptible to greedy dicks.

[-] Arfman@aussie.zone 10 points 2 months ago

We can regulate greedy dick behaviour

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[-] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago

Your generalization is false

The majority of humanity are not greedy or obsessed with profit

The problem is that the few ridiculously greedy sociopaths that do arise per-capita are just so FUCKDAMN good at amassing power and wealth that we assume it's the natural lot of all people

So we just test and dispose of sociopaths at birth, problem solved. We already have the tests for it.

Don't look at me like that

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[-] RockBottom@feddit.org 7 points 2 months ago

There are human societies were greed is not accepted.

[-] nexguy@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago

Which ones? Which ones don't damage their land or steal children from enemies or rape or steal? Please don't try to say any indigenous tribes because they are all guilty of one or more these.

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[-] joenforcer@midwest.social 9 points 2 months ago

I welcome you to inform us of this utopia you speak of.

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[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 6 points 2 months ago

capitalism or any other form of government

But capitalism isn't a form of government tho.
Nor is communism of even feudalism.

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[-] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 21 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

We live in a religious society that promotes a culture of bigotry. Does this mean we shouldn’t blame bigots?

We live in a patriarchal society that doesn’t take violence against women seriously. Does this mean that wife beaters aren’t to blame?

We live in a capitalist society that promotes selfishness and greed. Does this mean we shouldn’t blame selfish people? (Which is most of them.)

We live in a racist society… etc.

You are responsible for your actions and your beliefs. Step one to improving our society is accepting the reality that most humans have a poor (nearly non-existent) relationship with morality. They’re easily swayed by fallacious arguments because they are irrational and stupid. These are empirical facts about human beings that we ignore (with memes like this) at our own peril.

[-] RockBottom@feddit.org 11 points 2 months ago

We should blame religion, patriarchy, racism and capitalism.

[-] HasturInYellow@lemmy.world 7 points 2 months ago

Those are perpetuated by the stupidity and gullibility described above.

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[-] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Redirecting blame attributable to human foibles to an abstract concept like “capitalism” is shortsighted and self-defeating. Analogously, the problem over the last 10,000 years hasn’t been slavery (the concept); the problem has been slavers (their ignorance, psychopathy, and greed).

There’s no period in human history when people weren’t unfathomably stupid, because people are literally just animals (and many would happily end the world in order to get access to cheeseburgers). They make bad choices because the average person is not capable of moral deliberation. All hyperbole aside, this is an actual empirical fact.

[-] AppleTea@lemmy.zip 13 points 2 months ago

if the structure of society is set up in such a way that practically every action I need to take to keep myself fed and sheltered ultimately contributes to climate change, then it's fucking inane to say it is the fault of individuals being stupid.

[-] yeahiknow3@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Humans are selfish, and that’s precisely why we need an alternative to capitalism. Because if we don’t force people to act intelligently they’ll act like the animals they are and obliterate their environment until they are living on mountains of shit and corpses. This has happened throughout history over and over and over again, long before the advent of any economic ideologies.

Global warming can be fixed tomorrow if people stopped eating meat and stopped buying giant pickup trucks and stopped worshipping celebrities, and so on.

[-] AppleTea@lemmy.zip 6 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

And every armed conflict in the world would end if everyone put down their guns right this instant.

We're talking about structures that reach across the globe, with a momentum that existed before either of us were born, and with a trajectory that will be traced long after we are dead. You don't shift that trajectory by Wishing Upon a Star that everyone Becomes Better overnight. That's not a practical approach.

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[-] iAvicenna@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

humans invented capitalism, soooo....

[-] Turret3857@infosec.pub 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

humans also invented socialism, communism, fascism, monarchy, democracy so on and so fourth.

like, you can't just take the worst and be like "you see this is why we need to get rid of them!". its literally the point of the post. thats what is going on right now in the US with literally any person below the top square on the family guy race card. Would you say just because less than 1% of immigrants that are in the US have committed violent crimes, that all of them are violent criminals? If you do, I have bad news for you.

Famous screenshot from Family Guy episode "Are You There God? It's Me, Peter (Season: 16 Episode: 20). The screenshot depicts Peter in his car wearing stereotypical Muslim garb, while being stopped at a bridge checkpoint. The guard at the checkpoint who is not in frame is holding a card which is in frame that showcases 6 race "color squares". The lightest 3 are separated into the "Okay" category on top, the darkest 3 are separated into the "Not okay" category on the bottom.

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[-] TheDemonBuer@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Who do you think made capitalism? Space aliens?

[-] Lumiluz@slrpnk.net 5 points 2 months ago
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[-] chunes@lemmy.world 14 points 2 months ago

I've been called eco-fascist for suggesting anything that might help the environment, no matter how small. I'm not impressed by this buzzword.

[-] NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

I feel like you can't blame the corpos 100% and then proceed to do nothing to help the environment. Like I get that capitalism and unnecessary waste driven by it are by and large the problem, but it feels like people just use that as an excuse to put in zero effort personally and continue to live their lifestyle of overconsumption. It's very defeatist imo.

[-] Dragonstaff@leminal.space 6 points 2 months ago

"Humans are the virus" is related to the racist "overpopulation" myth which leads straight to eugenics. Sure, many words are overused, but "political ideology that combines environmentalism with fascist principles, often advocating for authoritarian measures to address ecological issues" is a bad thing.

[-] AppleTea@lemmy.zip 11 points 2 months ago

Plenty of bacteria and viruses are beneficial, and contribute to the overall health of their hosts.

If humans are diseases, then it is because through learned behaviors that we act in a deleterious manner towards the overall ecosystem. We are entirely capable of shifting those behaviors, of creating social structures that select for behaviors that promote co-existence and symbiosis with that ecosystem.

[-] darkdemize@sh.itjust.works 6 points 2 months ago

There are some symbiotic bacteria, but I'm unaware of any beneficial viruses. Their entire nature is to hijack cells to replicate themselves, typically resulting in the eventual death of the host cell.

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[-] thepenismightier@lemm.ee 11 points 2 months ago

Idk if we're gonna have fascism we might as well have eco-fascism.

[-] carotte 7 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

except eco-fascism isn’t "fascism but we save the planet! :D" it’s "fascism but to justify the genocide of brown people we add a bit of green sprinkles on the white supremacist rhetoric"

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[-] Godric@lemmy.world 11 points 2 months ago
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[-] hedge_lord@lemmy.world 8 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Why do I need to put guard rails on things? People can just choose to not fall off. All people are perfectly rational/knowledgeable and other physical pressures do not exist, so people must want to fall off of cliffs!

[-] hedge_lord@lemmy.world 6 points 2 months ago

There actually is no way to change this. We can't do anything about it because we're just too stupid. People create systems of violence, and there's just nothing that can be done to help that because there is no way to change that. No sir, no way at all. It's pointless to even try.

We are all sinners filled with sin so anything that we do is bad. There is no hope. Your grandmother is a virus actually.

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[-] Evil_Shrubbery@lemm.ee 8 points 2 months ago

Destruction of nature & unwise use of resources, or even just multiplying to a point where even the most prudent resource management & minimal environmental impact per capita is the absolute goal could still destiny biodiversity.

This has to do with economical tendencies of living beings, not a particular socioeconomic system.
(Yes, capitalism is accelerating the process by taking away freedoms from the masses - but even a commune can decide to chop up the whole forest for wood. World is a fuck.)

"Virus" might not be the best word for it tho (infestation maybe? Fits the capita growth statistics), but successful animals that oversaturate their environment (eg lots of food, no predators, longevity after procreation, tech) cause biodiversity loss (anything from local collapse to a global extinction event with cofactors like climate change or air structure change - what is novel with humans is how rapidly we are developing in our last 0.5% of existence, and how rapid the global impact we case is, it won't take us 10s of thousands of years, we can speedrun in less than a millennia).

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this post was submitted on 09 May 2025
805 points (100.0% liked)

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