Honestly, as a woman, I think it’s more about knowing when it’s appropriate to talk to people.

It’s okay if people hit me up at the park or the bar. It’s not okay when I’m doing my groceries in a hurry, or when I’m crossing the street 😆 and if you get “rejected” (sometimes it’s not a hard rejection, my social schedule is just already full), just take it well and go talk to someone else.

I don’t think this is rocket science, and apart from some teenagers whistling me from across the street (which I always pretend I can’t hear), almost all adults get this right.

It's okay to approach and have normal conversations with women that you don't have business or school commonalities with. Even if you think you may have interest to eventually escalate it into dating. Just be genuine and don't try to be someone you're not. But once you make that attempt to date, if they say no, accept that no and don't try again unless it's blatantly obvious they've changed their mind.

You might be out of touch, but it depends on what you mean about approaching people. For example, it's perfectly reasonable to talk to anyone at all for a wide variety of reasons, including things related to your hobbies or your jobs or simply because you're waiting for the bus. Conversation is generally a safe thing to do with other human beings. If you are specifically avoiding conversations with people because they are women, then I think you should rethink your position.

Maybe your parents are asking you to start flirting with people, which is totally different from simply talking to them. If that's the topic, then it makes sense to be somewhat more careful about the time and place.

Your instincts are probably well placed. Obviously different people will have different preferences and reactions in this regard, but you're better off getting to know people in a friendly manner than just for the sake of finding a partner. Learning how to strike up conversations with strangers and leave them wanting for more is useful, but that's about all I'd say your parents are right about.

I'm forty, so a different generation than your parents, but I still grew up and had my first dating experiences before the internet. Online dating wasn't really a thing here until I was in my early twenties.

At least where I grew up the guys who randomly approached girls to ask them out were seen as creepy even back in the 90s. I and everyone I knew met partners through activities like sports clubs, parties, bars etc. (I'm not from the US, so people from my school started going to bars pretty early). While there wasn't a big discourse around men approaching women in public (or none that reached my little town), we did have some guys in town who'd just walk up to girls on the street and ask them out and the consensus was that they were weird and should be avoided.

I met all my partners so far through activities. My first boyfriend was a regular at the same student café and we ended up sitting next to each other during quiz night. I met guys I had dates with in uni - sitting next to each other during lectures and talking about the Prof, going to the same presentation or cooking night etc. None of them "approached me" in the sense of coming up to me and asking "can I have your number" with zero context. We chatted, had an interesting conversation. At the end we exchanged contact information to meet for a coffee, usually without any expectation of it being a date. When coffee went well, someone would ask the other out on a proper date. No approaching, no deciding within a few seconds wether you want to date someone. Just casually getting to know each other before asking for more.

I also met my husband that way. We went to the same event, talked, had a lot in common. We met the next day to continue a discussion about a certain topic we were both interested in. That's when things started getting flirty and by the end we made plans to meet for a real date. I don't even remember who asked whom, we were both heavily flirting with each by the time we talked about seeing each other again so it was very obvious the next meeting would be a date. He didn't ask me out out of nowhere or hit on me, we were just getting to know new people and eventually we started flirted somewhere along the line.

If you wouldn't strike up a conversation with a guy, don't strike up a conversation with a woman. Be comfortable with conversations with strangers of whatever gender with no ulterior motive, and you'll meet more people.

If you meet more people, your likelihood of finding dates will increase as a side effect.

If you are only approaching women, particularly women you find attractive, in places that are not generally for that purpose (bars, parties, swingers clubs), then you're being a creep.

But regardless, it's better to have interests, pursue those interests, and meet people with similar interests. Because when you have interests, you might become interesting, and someone might become interested.

Woman here who gets approached from time to time… casual chats are fine and low-key expressing interest is ok. The least stressful approaches I’ve had are when a guy sends his buddy over to expression interest. So you can appease your parents by asking a friend to make the approach on your behalf, maybe.

Some people enjoy casual chat with random people, and some people find it annoying. There's no right or wrong answer. It's definitely not the only way to meet romantic partners, though, especially these days.

I'm like a dozen years older than you, and still have this conversation with my parents about jobs. They want me to cold call people and stalk them and stuff. Really wild stuff.

Your parents are wrong in basically every way. Except, yeah, you should be capable of cold approaching anybody. Not to sexually harass them, but for normal things like, "excuse me have you seen a grey glasses case around here?"

Your parents are not out of touch entirely, as this is a culture thing. Largely a generational one, but still, an existing culture. I personally do not believe it good, but I'm also somewhat like you, except 3,000% queer, poly, and engaged. Sometimes I wish guys would just show up and shoot their shots. Be respectful and accept defeat, but still shoot them. Years ago (when I was about 25), I used to work sort of near a bar and this random dude from a bar somehow made his way to me, working, which was, again, fairly far away by foot. And he REALLY wanted to take me home, putting on all the charm and offers. Which was flattering and all, but I wasn't interested and was forced to steadily increase my level of rejections, plus I was still working. My really cool boss apparently overhead and saw a bit of it, and after the guy finally left (honestly like 30 minutes of him trying), we talked a bit about it and had a good laugh. The guy really just couldn't take a hint. Luckily though, he was a little guy and where I worked was very open and very well lit and so there was no threat.

I think that there's a time and place for everything. That you need to be comfortable in being yourself, and have your own drive and reasons for the things you do. Your parents ARE trying to help you, but often exacerbate their kids by pushing too hard or not putting ANY effort to learn or meet their kids even halfway.

And then you have to take into account that, yeah, people really ARE all different. I know girls who wouldn't want to be cold approached at all, for any reason. I know guys that way, too.

But I also know people that wish they'd be swept off their feet by a price charming or hulk or something. Honestly, I'm kinda that way, but with the duality that as much as I fantasize the forceful, having it be by somebody I don't accept is terrifying and horrifying. And that's not on any one specific thing - people are weird and have all their own unique, weird, internal, intuitive flags and needs. Be it a political alignment, a philosophy, an interest, an appreciation, an open mind, wanderlust, a sexual dynamic, a certain look, a certain feature, a familiarity, an unfamiliarity, for them to be monog or poly, a smell, certain kinds of armpits, tabs vs spaces, etc, whatever.

We are all different, is my point.

Different strokes for different folks, I guess. And you, as it seems, are not a seeker type. So, you should focus on what you want in a partner and who you are and want to be. You can listen to your parents a little, but realize that, they, too, besides from being your parents, are just some random ass people with some opinions they've formed by their own unique vision, through their own unique bodies and personalities - what works/worked for them may ONLY work for them, and that's fine. It doesn't make it better or worse than what works for you. I say, try it, at least once, and be prepared to apologize, and then learn from it. You're only young once.

The key is to be respectful.

Also, have you tried... 🫴 femboys? ;)

It’s ok to talk to a woman. But judging by your wall of text… maybe it’s not ok for you specifically to talk to a woman.

There's a difference between "approaching women" and "APPROACHING WOMEN."

You should be comfortable interacting with women in any environment simply because a) they are human beings and b) they're over 50% of the population.

You can't go outside and just never talk to women, that's actually creepier.

You don't have to be trying to pick someone up to, you know, treat them like a human being and talk to them.

Instead of making a move or straight up asking the out on a date. Just strike up a convo. You can really tell when someone doesn't want to push a conversation. Maybe they find you attractive and keep the conversation going?

If you want to cold approach, go to the club.

I think there's a lot of nuance that both sides of this are missing. There's a lot of middle ground between not talking to women out in the world at all, and going up to random girls and saying "nice shoes, wanna fuck?

You absolutely can approach people, strike up a conversation, maybe even hit it off and spin it into a friendship or romantic relationship.

I'm far from the guy to tell someone how to do that and try to pick apart the it's and outs of what makes some things ok and others not, but it is something that absolutely can be done.

I think the bigger issue here is that you are obviously uncomfortable with the idea of approaching people in public and your parents are treating this as irrelevant and something you are supposed to just force yourself to do it anyway despite feeling like the situation is wrong and threatening. You shouldn't need to justify not wanting to do that by appealing to some kind of cultural authority about what is acceptable to society.

Personally even as a man it normally freaks me out when strangers approach me in public. It just feels like a very unusual, unexpected and potentially unsafe kind of circumstance, almost never something positive, there's no way I would trust such a person, so I'm not going to do that to others because it's like I would be inflicting that on both of us simultaneously, and that would of course come through in any interaction I attempted. How could I expect them to be receptive to that when I would never be myself? People may argue, that's the wrong way to feel and so it doesn't matter, replace that attitude with a better one, as if they themselves could easily substitute a totally different way of being for how they are.

If you need an invitation in order to feel safe in a social situation, I would say it is ok to demand that people respect that and not mock you for it.

Do you talk to men you don't know in public? Small talk, or jokes at a bar? In the grocery store? Why wouldn't you talk to women? I am a woman and have daughters and none of us is offended by this, nor even the hypersensitive one, not even the lesbian. It's friendly talk.

It's harassment if you don't stop when you get a rejection. It's harassment if you sidle up with some horrifying personal comment about her body, or grab her arm and make her listen. You aren't going to do any of that. Small talk is not harassment, flirting is not harassment.

You are right in one way - it was bad that guys used to be able to say anything with absolute impunity, and women couldn't stop them, I was around for the end of that. Those guys didn't treat women like people, but in a way, neither are you, right? We are just people, talk to us like people.

Just learn to talk to all people in social situations, and don't make it transactional.

The right people will just drop into your life naturally.

The unsatisfying answer: you're both a little bit right.

You're correct that times have changed somewhat. But I think it's overkill to say that "approaching women at all unless you have business with them is disrespectful and borderline harassment".

Of course, context matters a lot. Don't bother women at their jobs, the bank is not a lady zoo. But in a social situation where you would expect to meet other people, it's fine to strike up a conversation with strangers or even ask them out.

However, by your own admission you don't get out much. So I'm assuming you don't get a lot of situations like bars or parties where this would happen. So I would try networking in your community, develop some hobbies, go to functions where you might meet someone in this manner.

I'll just say you probably shouldn't take dating advice from people who haven't done any dating for the last 30-40 years. The world has most certainly changed.

Your parents are definitely right.

You're supposed to wear a shirt that says 'want to touch my pension?'

I think you're both a little right. Yeah, they grew up in a world where it was generally more socially acceptable to approach strange women on the street than it is today. But that doesn't mean that you're never allowed to do it, either.

I think it'd be good to takeaway a bit of both arguments. Yes, you shouldn't harass women on the street, but also it's totally fine to talk to women as long as you're respectful and take the hint if they're not interested.

I met almost all of my previous girlfriends (including my now wife) either at parties my friends threw, or hobbies I was interested in. I never once went to a club to pick people up or try to meet people intentionally in public. That's always seemed too creepy for me.

Women are just people.

If you learn to talk to men you don't know, you'll learn to talk to women you don't know. It's not inappropriate unless you're trying to get something out of the situation. So don't. Just make some new friends. Of both sexes.

As for when/where, find some hobbies. Go do the hobbies. You'll meet people at the hobbies. Some of those people will be ladies.

Do you ever make small talk with men with whom “you don’t have business?”

I’m assuming yes, you probably do. Speaking with women is the same, just be sure to pick up on cues if they don’t want to speak. In fact, I’d advise you to practice by making small talk with everyone you can, with no agenda, and pay attention to their cues.

In my view, cold approaching women you don’t know just because you’re attracted to them is harassment.

I don't agree with this. You can approach women in public and talk to us without it being harassment. If you approach someone and they tell you to leave them alone and you don't or they're obviously uncomfortable and you persist then it's harassment.

For some context: I'm not as old as your parents but I'm older than you (I'm late 30s).

So, this is one of the unfortunate traps of our time, especially if you live in a place with car dependent sprawl. Women don't want to be solicited while at work or on personal business (groceries, gym, etc), and, really, nobody does. You want to work at work, and you want to do your business and go home otherwise. This goes doubly or triply so for complete strangers. There's really no third places (as they're called) left, where people go for the express purpose of being social and together. That's what's missing here. As someone else said, you are, unfortunately, both a little right.

It's particularly bad in places like the US that have car dependent sprawl because

• cities often have had their zoning ordinances weaponized by NIMBYs, and it's probably outright illegal to have a small cafe or shop in your neighborhood, or they're required to have some outrageous parking minimum or something like that.

• driving sucks more than you may be aware of while you're doing it. If you have to get into your car to go to the grocery, you don't want to make five stops at smaller grocers throughout the week; you'd rather just make one big stop at the big box mart and just go tf home. If you want to stop at a cafe, well, just swing through the starbucks drive through so you don't have to be bothered with getting out.

Well, chances are that most of your interactions at chain businesses and stores are anonymous, so you're not meeting other people in your community there, you're not creating any bonds or relationships there, you're doing your business and getting out, which, frankly, is what they want. You're especially not making any friends in the drive thru line. For nearly seventy years now, we've built our cities to be homes to cars, not people, and it's bearing fruit in the form of the loneliness epidemic.

My advice to you would be to go out of your way to find situations where people are getting together for the purpose of being social or having fun. Look for classes put on by your local city parks, go check your local library's bulletin board for events, check social media communities for your nearby city or town for groups that meet regularly. If you're religious, seek out some religious institutions that you find palatable.

You're not wrong, but you've got a bit of an extreme take on it. I think you and your parents may have different thoughts on what it means to "approach" a woman though. I'm going to use "flirt" to refer to talking to a woman with intent of seeing if they would make a good partner for you and just "talk" to indicate just being friendly with someone.

it is only appropriate for a man to talk to a woman who doesn’t know when the social situation is explicitly designed for meeting strangers

No, it's fine to talk to strangers of any gender in public. Approaching them and flirting with them is not. As long as you can roughly understand when you're making someone uncomfortable and stop it, you're not going to come off as a creep/predator. Stuck in a lineup in a store? Chat with someone beside you, maybe commiserate about how long the line is. If you want to flirt with them, then yes the situations you mentioned are definitely the places to do that.

(sort of an aside: whether "meeting friends of friends" is an appropriate situation to flirt with someone you just met is still situation dependent)

They are adamant that I need to learn to approach women or else I will never find a partner.

Approaching women in random public spaces with the intent of finding a partner is also a pretty bad idea. While it could work, it's definitely creep/predator behaviour so I avoid it. It's very likely to make them uncomfortable, since they're just trying to do their thing not get hit on. This can easily be harassment, though I'm on the fence on whether it's always harassment.

Personally I like to flip the genders on situations like this and ask if I'd want to be the other person in this situation. It's worth keeping in mind that woman have way more statistical reasons to be weary/wary of any interaction with men, though. Regardless, e.g. if some woman was beside me in line and started chatting with me, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me and complimented my shirt, I'd be fine with it. If some woman came up to me, complimented my shirt, and then asked for my number I'd be weirded out (I don't know you, lady). If some woman came up to me and asked me to take out my earbuds to commiserate about how long the line is, I'd be annoyed that I'm missing my music.

I'm with your parents on this one. It's not hard to talk to someone without harassing them. Obviously you have to be mindful of the context of the situation.

• You're at a party and attempt to strike up a friendly conversation with someone? Totally fine

• You see an attractive stranger walking on the street and you stop them to ask them out? Not ok

Obviously there are loads of gray areas in between, but you can't just start with the premise that talking to a woman is harassment.

When one reads the room (or the… sidewalk? the coffee shop?), is clever, and well groomed, and all that…

It’s absolutely possible to speak to strangers in public regardless of whether they’re male or female or whatever. Furthermore, sometimes the immediate response is a positive one instead of a polite but obviously disinterested one.

But oh my GOODNESS do we have to be careful not to be an undue burden on others! (Note some scenarios can’t be helped—people who are DEATHLY afraid of ANYONE talking to them ever are in a bad spot, sorry to those folks, but you may have to ignore a polite sentence from me before I apologize/quickly move on.)

I don’t have good cold approach tips for random places in public, but in a nightclub, can be natural to follow this flow:

• comment on venue
• comment on artist
• comment on the person (the person herself)

Maybe it’s adaptable outside the clurb too.

Do know it definitely helps out there if she has a dog. Only speaking to people when there’s a genuinely natural conversation starter, like a cute dog, is probably pretty safe. Maybe “Whoh did you get that hat from <boutique down the street?>” when you’re actually curious. Curiosity shines through, as does your lack of need for a specific outcome, and can lead to good engagement from someone you’ve made comfortable and perhaps who’s chuffed to have had their fancy accessory complimented. (‘Oh actually my friend made it!’ = nice)

And maybe you’re already walking away as you’re talking, just making it so obvious how little a threat you are, how unlikely you are to be aggressive.

We’re allowed to “be excellent to each other” and we’re allowed to get rejected. Nothing like a good rejection, LOVE knowing I tried. Finally hey, some of earth’s 8 billion inhabitants were married in modern times solely thanks to the guy reasonably approaching a stranger, and none of us could tell his wife she was wrong not to reject him (or that he was a jerk for saying hi).

YOU GOT THIS!

Kindly,

brb