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[-] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 43 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fun fact, posting a link to this article got me banned from the Germany subreddit:

[-] Zagorath@aussie.zone 12 points 1 year ago

Damn, really? Where's the post?

[-] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 7 points 1 year ago
[-] Saleh@feddit.org 7 points 1 year ago

I always forget what a cesspool of racism and authoritarianism reddit has become.

I know that there is definitely organized Zionist and organized Russian and other far-right chills on reddit, but it seems they have been quite effective in getting many people to follow them blindly.

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[-] gandalf_der_12te@feddit.org 11 points 1 year ago
[-] Gladaed@feddit.org 3 points 1 year ago

Abnormal human being's comment gives you a good idea why this is ban worthy. Pandering to conspiracy/extremist even if unintentional must be avoided to preserve the community.

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So just to make something clear here, because this has been hotly debated in Germany, and people have been doing a disservice to both sides, IMO:

Reports from last year suggest that one of the actions they were alleged to have been involved in included breaking into a university building and threatening people with objects that could have been used as potential weapons.

But the deportation orders go further. They cite a broader list of alleged behaviours: chanting slogans such as “Free Gaza” and “From the river to the sea, Palestine will be free”, joining road blockades (a tactic frequently used by climate activists), and calling a police officer a “fascist”. Read closely, the real charge appears to be something more basic: protest itself.

So, the former is usually brought up by people, when arguing this is not a case of just protest, numbers I've seen were something like 100k in damages and threatening people with axes used in the break-in. This is usually used to elicit a response of "Oh, okay, they deserve it then."

Thing is: No matter what they did, they deserve proper legal procedure happening, put in front of a court, and to be considered innocent until proven guilty. The whole deportation rhetoric is being used to create a precedent to suspend the rule of law. It's also clearly used in bad faith, also targeting people that haven't had a home outside of Germany in many years, up to decades.

The whole issue of Palestine is very contentious in Germany, as the article points out, and a tool used to create division, not just in society as a whole, but also specifically to create division within the left. My point being: No matter, if you personally think that these people deserve some big punishment, and that the things done were not okay - if you end up supporting this specific way to get there, you are supporting suspension of law, encroaching a new standard of punishment without trial, and the growth of fascism. It really is a "first they came for" situation, don't ever think that this is implemented by people that won't ultimately also use it against you and your own interests down the line.

[-] FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world 24 points 1 year ago

I can totally understand Germany feeling obligated to help relatives of a population they genocided. But helping them while they genocide other people should be a red line.

[-] psychothumbs@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Yeah the German attitude of "we genocided these people in the past therefore it's our obligation to help them genocide other people" is pretty odd.

[-] Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org 12 points 1 year ago

Please note not every German shares the same opinion on topics.

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[-] TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org 9 points 1 year ago

Yeah why our government sends weapons despite recent developments is beyond me. The Israeli government crossed the red line over a year ago. Instead of focussing on Hamas and saving the hostages, they decided to commit war crimes.

[-] T00l_shed@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

C'mon Germany do better

[-] OmegaLemmy@discuss.online 11 points 1 year ago

Dude where the fuck am I supposed to even migrate to?

Austria? Maybe Switzerland? Maybe Ireland....

[-] TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org 5 points 1 year ago

If you are against the existence of Israel, support Hamas or against a two state solution, don't come to Germany or Austria. You wont be welcome here.

Btw. Most Germans support a Palestinian state and an end to the war, but also Israel's right to existence.

[-] FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Germany are not the moral bastions you are portraying them as. Calling human rights supporters terrorists while you cosy up to genocidal regimes is plainly dishonest.

[-] TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org 4 points 1 year ago

Germany doesn't allow hate speech like the US does. And Hamas arent human rights supporters.

[-] FarraigePlaisteach@lemmy.world 20 points 1 year ago
  • Israel is at least as dangerous as Hamas.
  • Those protesters are not hamas.
  • Please argue in good faith.
[-] Noja@sopuli.xyz 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sorry but why do they keep using hamas' triangle symbol if they don't support hamas?

Employees reported that they were asked to leave their offices in English that was difficult to understand and under threat of violence. People who did not comply were physically attacked

Berliner Zeitung

traumatizing random employees, great way to protest /s

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[-] TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org 2 points 1 year ago

No, 1. Likud and Otzma are. Israel absolutely deserves a better government. 2. I never said that. However there are a lot of protesters at these protests who don't shy away from putting Hamas in a positive light and push antisemitic narratives. Also there has been many instances where neonazi actors have attended pro-Palestine protests and werent ousted. 3. So it is bad faith when I disagree with you?

[-] Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org 5 points 1 year ago

Also there has been many instances where neonazi actors have attended pro-Palestine protests and werent ousted.

Please link sources for that statement.

[-] TanteRegenbogen@feddit.org 3 points 1 year ago
[-] Peter_Arbeitslos@feddit.org 3 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Thanks.

DeepL, no quality check

Translation 1WDR research shows: Corona deniers and right-wing extremists are also trying to profit from pro-Palestinian demonstrations. The NRW Office for the Protection of the Constitution is alarmed.

A demonstration in Cologne at the end of October, a good two weeks after Hamas' terrorist attack on Israel. Hundreds of people have gathered right next to the cathedral. The title of the rally: “Solidarity for Palestine”. A woman takes the microphone and shouts: "We are enslaved here by our government. Not just in Germany, all governments worldwide."

She speaks of “13 bloodlines that rule over 8 billion people”. The people applaud. The speaker is Bianca Paffenholz, the best-known face from Cologne's conspiracy ideology scene. Most recently with the group “Cologne is active” at Corona demos, she is now trying to mobilize with the topic of Palestine.

Daniel Vymyslicki was at the demonstration to record anti-Semitic incidents for the Cologne Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism. The “13 bloodlines” are clearly an anti-Semitic conspiracy narrative: "It is the idea that a few powerful families rule the whole world. Such ideas already existed under National Socialism."

A corona denier at a pro-Palestine demonstration - this has been seen time and again in recent weeks. Reporters have documented this at several demonstrations in NRW for the WDR magazine Westpol. The research shows how new alliances are being formed in the course of the current war in the Middle East. New alliances - from lateral thinkers to right-wing extremists

At several pro-Palestinian demonstrations, people appeared who are known in the corona denialist scene or through pro-Russian calls, share conspiracy narratives and disinformation online or have been classified as right-wing extremists by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution for years. Some belong to parties such as Jürgen Todenhöfer's “Justice Party”, “Die Basis” or “Aufbruch Frieden-Souveränität-Gerechtigkeit”.

Daniel Vymyslicki from the Cologne Documentation Center for the History of National Socialism explains the new activity by the fact that other topics are just no longer gaining traction: "The coronavirus pandemic simply no longer has the social relevance it once had. This is now an attempt to find new supporters."

A surprising alliance for him: "In the conspiracy theory scene in NRW, we've been very close to the far-right scenes since the coronavirus pandemic. In this respect, it's not really natural to stand up for the interests of the Palestinian people. But we can see that hatred of Israel, which usually only masks anti-Semitism, is the glue that brings these different groups together on both sides."

NRW Interior Minister Herbert Reul (CDU) takes a similar view: "As soon as the cause, such as the coronavirus pandemic, has subsided, they are suddenly supporters of Hamas. For them, it's actually about being against the ‘system’, against the establishment." The NRW Office for the Protection of the Constitution is alarmed by the new alliances that are forming at demonstrations and online.

Former CDU politician and journalist Jürgen Todenhöfer has also often appeared at lateral thinking demonstrations. At the beginning of November, he spoke at a demonstration in Düsseldorf, which according to the police was attended by 17,000 people - and used lateral thinking slogans. “Don't just give the Palestinians their freedom, but finally give the Germans back their freedom of opinion, their civil courage”, Todenhöfer shouted to the crowd, “Put an end to the nationwide dictatorship of [mainstream] opinion”.

Todenhöfer now has his own party, “Team Todenhöfer”, with which he also wants to run in the European elections in NRW next year. The pro-Palestinian demonstrations give him the opportunity to reach more Muslims or people with a history of migration.

“We see that people and accounts like Jürgen Todenhöfer's are exploiting this window of opportunity very professionally,” says Özgür Özvatan from the Berlin Institute for Empirical Integration and Migration Research. "They are clearly targeting people who are angry and sad about the war. But also to other people who are frustrated with the way democracy works."

When asked by WDR, Todenhöfer wrote that he had been campaigning against war and for peace long before founding his party. It is sad that people in Germany are no longer allowed to criticize the wars of some countries. He also condemned the Hamas terror attack on Israel on October 7.

At the Düsseldorf demonstration, Todenhöfer joined Muslim influencers such as Issam Bayan and Serhat Sisik on stage. They reach tens of thousands of followers on social media. Their topics appeal to Muslim people in particular.

Some of them also share questionable content, e.g. from “Generation Islam”. Security authorities attribute the organization to the Islamist group Hizb-ut-Tahrir. This in turn is officially monitored by the NRW Office for the Protection of the Constitution. It denies Israel's right to exist and is not allowed to operate in Germany. A particularly extreme form of cooperation between radicals of various persuasions was seen at another demonstration in Cologne on November 18. It was called by the splinter party “Aufbruch Frieden, Souveränität, Gerechtigkeit”, an alliance of right-wing extremists, a Salafist and pro-Russian propagandists whose leading members are under observation by the Office for the Protection of the Constitution.

They have invited the publicist Christoph Hörstel, who repeatedly shares conspiracy ideology content on his Telegram channel. At the demonstration, he distributed a flyer showing him together with one of the leaders of Hamas. In his speech, he calls the Hamas terror attack on November 7 “self-defense” and denies Israel's right to exist: "My conviction is now: It will not be possible to do anything with Israel. We must develop the willingness to dismantle this state."

NRW Interior Minister Reul speaks of a “serious phenomenon” that can be seen at the demonstrations and on the internet. For him, it is clear that the various groups want to instrumentalize the protests: “They want to create unrest in society and naturally seize the opportunity to use the event for their own purposes.” The Office for the Protection of the Constitution will be keeping a close eye on this development.

Translation 2Demo planned in Cologne Islamists, right-wingers and Putin fans drum up opposition to Israel

On Sunday, hundreds of people want to show their solidarity with Palestine at Cologne Central Station. Among them: “lateral thinkers”, right-wing extremists and Putin loyalists.

A pro-Palestinian demonstration is to take place next Sunday at Cologne Central Station. It is being organized by the party “Aufbruch Frieden-Souveränität-Gerechtigkeit” - known for the right-wing extremist André Poggenburg and the Cologne-based Putin propagandist Elena Kolbasnikova. The pro-Russian activist is the former chairwoman of the party, but her successor, Markus Beisicht, is also no stranger to the party.

Beisicht, a lawyer and politician, made it onto the Leverkusen city council in 2020 with his party “Aufbruch Leverkusen”. He was previously active in the far-right, anti-Islam and anti-constitutional party “Pro-NRW” and defended right-wing extremists and neo-Nazis in court as a lawyer. Just like Elena Kolbasnikova herself, who was sentenced to a fine by the Cologne district court for approving the war of aggression against Ukraine. Her apartment has already been stormed by a special task force.

During the coronavirus pandemic, Beisicht railed against infection control measures and vaccinations, and since Vladimir Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine, he and like-minded people have stood by the Russian president: anti-infection control, pro-Putin and now also pro-Palestine.

On the Telegram channel of “Aufbruch Frieden-Souveränität-Gerechtigkeit”, the organizers call for participation in the Sunday demonstration at the main train station. After all, the “FRG authorities” are trying to prevent “what is currently happening in the Gaza Strip from being spoken about truthfully on the streets of Germany.” There is not a word about the atrocities committed by Hamas terrorists against the Israeli civilian population on October 7.

Journalist Christoph Hörstel is also due to give a speech at the rally at Cologne Central Station; he has already attracted attention in the past for his anti-Israeli statements. Hörstel's participation was announced by “Aufbruch Frieden-Souveränität-Gerechtigkeit” on Telegram and with flyers. In 2012, for example, he said in an interview with an Iranian government broadcaster that the German raison d'état on Israel's right to exist was “complete political nonsense”. He also appeared for many years at the al-Quds Day in Berlin, which is organized by the mullah regime in Iran. Hörstel also believes that the US government is poisoning the population with so-called chemtrails, i.e. chemicals released by airplanes. During the coronavirus pandemic, Beisicht railed against infection control measures and vaccinations, and since Vladimir Putin's war of aggression against Ukraine, he and like-minded people have stood by the Russian president: anti-infection control, pro-Putin and now also pro-Palestine.

On the Telegram channel of “Aufbruch Frieden-Souveränität-Gerechtigkeit”, the organizers call for participation in the Sunday demonstration at the main train station. After all, the “FRG authorities” are trying to prevent “what is currently happening in the Gaza Strip from being spoken about truthfully on the streets of Germany.” There is not a word about the atrocities committed by Hamas terrorists against the Israeli civilian population on October 7.

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[-] bunkyprewster@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

Ireland never genocided anyone.

Oh but wait, who was there before Celtic people arrived?

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[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Good job getting right wing nutjobs elected liberals.

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this post was submitted on 03 Apr 2025
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