The headline makes it sound like Tesla is trialing a new 'fatality' feature for it's autopilot.
Well, someone has to invent the suicide booths featured in Futurama. Might as well be him.
I really want to trust you're throwing a dark joke up but the sheer concept of suicide booths is a very harsh critique at a failed society. A very failed society. For it to become a joke...Call me square but that is a joke haimed to who laughs on it.
https://youtu.be/EbmQxZkSswI?si=0lcguQyWQxUggaB5
It’s a joke but a suicide booth isn’t that bad, assisted pain free death is a right everyone should have.
But having it on a street corner for ease of access is pretty fucked
Mortal Kombat: Vehicle Edition
Carmaggedon
The packet says to fight a Honda. (I know, Street Fighter, but still.)
With how Elon has been acting this is a distinct possibility.
It would probably scream "Xterminate!" before running you over.
The reality is that they didn't trial it at all, they just sent straight to production. In this case, it successfully achieved a fatality.
Autopilot is not safe.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/technology/2023/06/10/tesla-autopilot-crashes-elon-musk/
Isn't it a glorified cruise control/lane guidance system, rather than an actual automated driving system? So it would be about as safe as those are, rather than being something that you can just leave along to handle its own business, like a robotic vacuum cleaner.
The main issue is that they market it like a fully autonomous system, and made it just good enough that it lulls people into a false sense of security that they don't need to pay attention, while also having no way to verify they are, unlike other systems from BMW, GM, or Ford.
Other systems have their capabilities intentionally hampered to insure that you're not going to feel it's okay to hop in the passenger seat and let your dog drive.
They are hands-on driver assists, and so they are generally calibrated in a way that they'll guide you in the lane, but will drift/sway just a bit if you completely take your hands off the wheel, which is intended to keep you, y'know, actually driving.
Tesla didn't want to do that. They wanted to be the "best" system, with zero safety considerations at any step other than what was basically forced upon them by the supplier so they wouldn't completely back out. The company is so insanely reckless that I feel shame for ever wanting to work for them at one point, until I saw and heard many stories about just how bad they were.
I got to experience it firsthand too working at a supplier, where production numbers were prioritized over key safety equipment, and while everyone else was willing to suck it up for a couple of bad quarters, they pushed it and I'm sure it's indirectly resulted in further injuries and potentially deaths because of it.
This is an absolutely bald-faced lie. Tesla absolutely does NOT market Autopilot as fully autonomous system. Autopilot is nothing other than lane-centering and adaptive cruise control with emergency braking, and that's it. There is zero ambiguity about it on the vehicle and in documentation. Plus, it specifically requires the driver to maintain control of the wheel.
You need to stop, drop, and roll or jump in the nearest pool before your pants burn you to a crisp.
Oh really? Is that why for years now, on the front page for Autopilot on Tesla's site, was the infamous "Paint it Black" demo, where in the first 10 seconds it says "The driver only there for legal reasons, the car is driving itself"? What do you think is going to stick in the mind of a potential buyer: that video of the car "driving itself" right on the Tesla website, or the generic 5 line page that you'll see in basically every single car with a satnav these days saying, "Please operate the car safely"?
Regardless of how much people like you love to get into the technicalities and differences between Autopilot and Full Self Driving and chime in with "ACKSHUALLY" and insert any number of the same tired responses about how autopilot works on aircraft or what it says in the documentation, it changes nothing about how they've shaped the public perception of their system and how people are going to attempt and use it.
Stop defending their shitty practices. Literally everyone else has figured out how to prevent people from abusing these systems, Tesla won't even bother, because people like you will step in and defend it every time for some fucking reason, and as a bonus it saves them money.
Autopilot is nothing other than lane-centering and adaptive cruise control with emergency braking, and that’s it.
When you put it that way, the term Autopilot does sound really misleading.
In have this product named Telephone. I absolutely do NOT market Telephone as a remote long distance voice chat system. Telephone is nothing other than a voice-recording and adaptive voice control with emergency saving features, and that’s it.
Driving is not safe. These systems could be improved upon, but they've also saved numerous lives by preventing accidents from occurring in the first place. The example in the OP happened while this driver was sitting behind the wheel watching a movie. The first example in your article occurred with a driver behind the wheel. If either of them had been driving a 1995 Honda Civic, these accidents would have occurred just the same, but would anyone be demanding that Honda is to blame?
but they’ve also saved numerous lives by preventing accidents from occurring in the first place.
There is no data to make this claim. You're just making this up.
No, we would (rightfully so) blame the driver for merging into a semi truck that from my understanding was clearly visible.
The second trial, set for early October in a Florida state court, arose out of a 2019 crash north of Miami where owner Stephen Banner’s Model 3 drove under the trailer of an 18-wheeler big rig truck that had pulled into the road, shearing off the Tesla's roof and killing Banner. Autopilot failed to brake, steer or do anything to avoid the collision, according to the lawsuit filed by Banner's wife.
Is this the guy who was literally paying no attention to the road at all and was watching a movie whilst the car was in motion?
I legit can't find information on it now as every result I can find online is word for word identical to that small snippet. Such is modern journalism.
I know people like to get a hard on with the word "autopilot", but even real pilots with real autopilot still need to "keep an eye on things" when the system is engaged. This is why we have two humans in the cockpit on those big commercial jets.
The way musk marketed it was as a "self driving" feature, not a driving assist. Yes with all current smart assists you need to be carefully watching what it's doing, but that's not what it was made out to be. Because of that I'd still say tesla is responsible.
Tesla's Autopilot is driving assistance. I don't know where you saw Musk marketing it as a self driving feature. Hell, even for the misnomer "full self driving" they note:
The currently enabled features require a fully attentive driver, who has their hands on the wheel and is prepared to take over at any moment.
The feature is called “Autopilot”, meaning that the car automatically pilots itself, rather than using a human pilot. The definition of autopilot is literally “a device for keeping an aircraft or other vehicle on a set course without the intervention of the pilot.” I’m not sure how he could have more explicitly misrepresented the product.
meaning that the car automatically pilots itself, rather than using a human pilot
No it doesn't. Even an airplane autopilot only maintain the course set by the pilot and it's not capable of making decisions and navigating autonomously.
All technologies in publicly sold vehicles today and in recent years are of driving assistance and require driver's attention. Anybody using the tech without paying attention is being negligent.
Autopilot is capable of navigating though, and it does make decisions like when to merge and when to execute a turn, by design. I don’t think it’s adequately equipped to make those decisions, but by design, it does. They even advertise it on their official YouTube channel, with a clip of them just plugging in a destination and letting the car get them there in their video. Tesla is responsible for advertising they do, and claims they make of their product that simply aren’t true.
I think you're referring to FSD beta and not Autopilot. One is supposed to be the self driving feature at some point while the other is simply lane keeping/cruise control. FSD wasn't even available when this crash happened.
No I was referring to autopilot, just look at the name of it. It's I know it's not capable of self driving (and neither is the even more absurd name of "full self driving") but to your average person it intentionally sounds as if the car is driving itself instead of it being a driving assist.
Self driving is not a defined standard, it is a buzz word like increase your vitality. The SAE standards for autonomous vehicles do not have a self driving category
There are also two pilots. Because they know people are people. And don't brand it a self driving and full self driving then.
Why do people buy Teslas? Sure. Tesla is at fault to a point but surely consumers have enough data at this point to know that Teslas are overpriced hunks of shit and the CEO is a total right wing snowflake. Why? Why buy one? I don’t fucking get it.
I mean, yeah, but I doubt that it's Tesla's official stance on the matter
It seems like an obvious flaw that's pretty simple to explain. Car is learnt to operate the infromation about collisions on a set height. The opening between the wheels of a truck's trailer thus could be treated by it as a free space. It's a rare situation, but if it's confirmed and reproduceable, that, at least, raises concerns, how many other glitches would drivers learn by surprise.
~~Although it’s far from perfect, autopilot gets into a lot less accidents per mile than drivers without autopilot.~~
~~They have some statistics here:~~ https://www.tesla.com/VehicleSafetyReport
EDIT: As pointed out by commenters in this thread, autopilot is mainly used on high ways, whereas the crash average is on all roads. Also Tesla only counts a crash if the airbag was deployed, but the numbers they compared against count every crash, including the ones without deployed airbags.
Why should we trust any numbers that comes from Tesla?
Do you have statistics not by Tesla?
And when autopilot is at fault for an accident or fatality, who should be held responsible?
Just because it’s better, shouldn’t absolutely them of responsibility when it fails.
It's an interesting question. But I would be disappointed if the self-driving was basically killed by the legal questions, since it has a huge potential to save lives.
The driver is always responsible for using the tools within the car correctly and maintaining control of the vehicle at all times.
Either way the driver would be at fault. However, the driver might be able to make a (completely separate) case that the car’s defects made control impossible, but since the driver always had the option to disable self-driving, I doubt that would go anywhere.
Just like you don’t get off the hook if your cruise control causes an accident… and it doesn’t matter how much Tesla lied about what it may or may not be capable of, because at the end of the day it’s always the driver’s responsibility to know the limitations of the vehicle and disable the feature and take control when necessary.
Which is exactly what this case is claiming, that the software is defective.
And what happens when we progress beyond Level 2 or 3 automation? Then the car is making choices for the driver, choices the driver may not have any say in or realistically be capable of reacting to in an emergency?
Deferring responsibility to the driver under any scenario is a cop-out. We have a long history of engineering qualifications and regulations to ensure safety of the populace, engineers and architects design structures to be safe, plumbers have to plumb to code, heck even cars themselves have a mile long list of compliance requirements. All to ensure the thing that companies build aren’t killing the population, and when they do someone is responsible.
Yet as soon as we start talking about software, “not my problem dawg.”.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
SAN FRANCISCO, Aug 28 (Reuters) - Tesla Inc (TSLA.O) is set to defend itself for the first time at trial against allegations that failure of its Autopilot driver assistant feature led to death, in what will likely be a major test of Chief Executive Elon Musk's assertions about the technology.
Self-driving capability is central to Tesla’s financial future, according to Musk, whose own reputation as an engineering leader is being challenged with allegations by plaintiffs in one of two lawsuits that he personally leads the group behind technology that failed.
The first, scheduled for mid-September in a California state court, is a civil lawsuit containing allegations that the Autopilot system caused owner Micah Lee’s Model 3 to suddenly veer off a highway east of Los Angeles at 65 miles per hour, strike a palm tree and burst into flames, all in the span of seconds.
Banner’s attorneys, for instance, argue in a pretrial court filing that internal emails show Musk is the Autopilot team's "de facto leader".
Tesla won a bellwether trial in Los Angeles in April with a strategy of saying that it tells drivers that its technology requires human monitoring, despite the "Autopilot" and "Full Self-Driving" names.
In one deposition, former executive Christopher Moore testified there are limitations to Autopilot, saying it "is not designed to detect every possible hazard or every possible obstacle or vehicle that could be on the road," according to a transcript reviewed by Reuters.
The original article contains 986 words, the summary contains 241 words. Saved 76%. I'm a bot and I'm open source!
I can't understand how anyone is even able to let the car do something on its own. I drive old Dacia Logan and Renault Scénic, but at work we have Škoda Karoq and I can't even fully trust its beeping backing sensors or automatic handbrake. I can't imagine if the car steered, accelerated or braked without me telling it to.
I think it's fine at the level where you are there and ready to take control, but you need to be paying attention still. Humans aren't flawless and we shouldn't expect our automated systems to be either. This doesn't excuse Tesla, because they've been marketing it as something it's not for a long time now. They're driver assist features, not self driving features. It can keep you in a lane and maintain speed well, but you shouldn't fully trust it. If it's better than humans at some tasks, it should be used for those regardless of if it will fail at it sometimes. People shouldn't be lied to and convinced it's more than it is though.
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