Hey hey these two things aren't mutually exclusive!
True and acceptable, however I don't feel patriotic.
I don't either in the typical "my country is the best" way, more like "my country is democratic and that's why it's good (also use your influence to make democracy more commonplace pls)".
You just defined nationalism ("my country is better, fuck the others") vs. patriotism ("I love my country and will defend its values")
And if they're both rotten, well there's always a common enemy.
I don't hate all Americans, I've met some really cool ones over the years. But I do hate its fake democracy, its vulgar, parasitic oligarchs, its deceitful propaganda networks and the lust for war and global domination that drenches all three.
I'm an American,and I boycott US products because they're shit quality.
Before all this we used to say “Chinese quality, German price”
That's the most accurate description that I have ever heard.
You boycot american products because you think you are american.
I don't because America is a continent not a single country.
This. I’ve gotten some pushback on it, but I believe the US shouldn’t own the term “American”. I say that as a US American.
They don't "own" anything. In multiple languages another correct way to name them is the equivalent of Unitedstadian, this is true for French and Spanish.
Hi, nice to meet you. Where are you from? America. Oh, like Mexico or Chile?
It's always fun to see their faces :)
Anti-imperialism would make more sense. The US is not the only asshole... (Edit: Just the current worst one.)
When it comes to contemporary imperialist assholery the US is #1 by far. Since after WW2 they've been nothing but shitting on humanity, between the CIA installing puppet dictators to wars (open and secret) killing tens of millions. The list of countries they have fucked with is too long to post here.
And now their former closest allies are annexation targets.
Seems like something I'd come across in r/2westerneurope4you
I was feeling more "American that hates their government" vibes
Not all are easy to boycott
US products > GitHub, Steam (Valve), Dropbox, Oracle, nVidia, Intel, IBM, eBay, Amazon, UPS, FedEx, Pepsi, CocaCola, Microsoft, Google, Pfitzer, Nike......., Which of these support Trump and needs to be avoided because of this? Not even FOSS is a Guarantee. Gimp, GNU Project, Mozilla.org, TOR, even a lot of Linux distros are from the US
Full list of US companies https://fortune.com/ranking/fortune500/?global500_y_n=true
apart from foss content in which you can simply pick the source code and compile on your machine, or fork or reverse engineer them, in some cases you can either p!rate it outright (hello, ms and riaa!) or have already well established alternatives in your country (sodas, online commerce platform).
either way, you're not taking down the u.s. by claiming ethical consumption. there's no such thing under capitalism. the best thing you can do is organize and take down the system that enables big companies that own us.
You forgot AMD there. Intel alone would be super easy to avoid. But AMD is also based in the US. You kinda need either AMD or Intel if you want to own a useful computer. Or there's Apple Silicon, but that's still American. Qualcomm laptop offerings are not that great yet and guess what, it's also an American company.
This is all a lot harder to boycott than Coca Cola, Nike, etc. I can just buy local soft drinks and Adidas shoes. In fact I currently own Adidas shoes (I'm the kinda guy who buys one pair of shoes, wears the everloving fuck out of them, then buys another pair and the old pair gets used in the garage afterwards) and my clothes already come from European owned brands (that are probably made in Bangladesh or something, I don't buy a lot of expensive clothes). UPS and FedEx aren't hard to avoid either. Most of my shit gets delivered via Omniva, DHL or Itella.
The x86-64 CPU monopoly that the US has might honestly be the hardest American thing to avoid. The cloud monopoly is even bigger and we all tend to interact with it in one way or another, but most of us could host our own shit on Hetzner or OVH if needed, so at least no need to directly give them money.
Does this mean Europeans will also boycott goods that they steal from the 17 countries they still have colonized?
No? Oh.
Ah, good ole whataboutism.
It’s not whataboutism when my entire ideology is anti-nationalism. You don’t get it, do you? I want all of the Western imperialist nations to collapse, including the European ones.
Your rhetoric is weak and outdated, still viewing the world through borders. You think Musk gives a fuck about borders? Grow up.
3 of these 17 territories are colonies of the USA (American Samoa, Guam, Virgin Islands).
When it comes to Europe the extortion of former colonies might be the bigger problem (the Franc Zone or the ongoing exploitation of African ressources).
Right. But, I’m an American who strives to boycott goods produced by slave labor and/or colonization by my own government because I believe class solidarity transcends borders.
The BuyEuropean movement is largely nationalistic and uninterested in class solidarity. Don’t get me wrong, I think the entire world should be boycotting American goods. Let the empire collapse, please.
But, boycotting American goods while still exploiting the Global South for centuries is not a flex.
You will never convince a majority of Western people of boycotting anything for a moral reason.
They boycott America because they finally feel threatened. Just take the W and let them boycott America.
there is problems with the buy european movement as outlines in other comments here, but as an American: please continue boycotting us, the chances of our government changing for the better are slim, but every bit of protest matters.
I don’t get it
Pro-Euro vs anti-US. The "buy European" movement is generally occupied by a mixture of genuine anti-US protestors, as well as various European nationalists. Kinda like how cottagecore got captured by the far-right, the lack of a cohesive line is leading to some groups pushing Euro-flavored fascism as an alternative to US-flavored fascism, as far right parties increasingly gain ground in the EU.
I Boycott American products because I'm 3 'once-in-a-lifetime' recessions deep and cannot afford them
Anti-American is fucking weird.
How about get to the root that most of us here have in common? Even half of the Americans agree with the below principles.
Anti-consumerism for the sake of consuming. Anti-greed. Anti harming others for your own selfish gains. Anti-billionaires. Anti-waste and harming the planet.
Let me break down for you why I'm anti-American. History and the absolute disregard for life the US promotes, as illustrated by the grim list below:
1. Direct Military Deaths (Combat & Bombing):
- Korean War (1950-1953): Estimates vary widely, but civilian deaths in Korea are generally placed between 2 and 4 million. US military actions contributed significantly to this toll through bombing campaigns and ground combat. A reasonable attribution for direct/indirect deaths attributable to the US is 600,000 - 1,500,000.
- Vietnam War (1955-1975): This is where the largest numbers lie. Estimates of Vietnamese civilian deaths range from 2 million to over 4 million. US bombing campaigns (Operation Rolling Thunder, Linebacker I & II) and ground operations were major contributors. Estimated US attribution: 1,000,000 - 3,800,000.
- Laos (Secret War – 1964-1973): US bombing of Laos was extensive and largely secret. Civilian deaths are estimated at tens of thousands to over 100,000. Estimated US attribution: 20,000 - 100,000.
- Cambodia (Bombing – 1969-1973): As mentioned previously, estimates range from 50,000 to over 500,000. Estimated US attribution: 50,000 - 500,000.
- Iraq (Gulf War 1991 & Iraq War 2003-2011): The Gulf War resulted in tens of thousands of civilian deaths due to bombing and sanctions. The Iraq War is even more complex, with estimates ranging from hundreds of thousands to over a million. Estimated US attribution: 100,000 - 750,000.
- Afghanistan (2001-2021): Civilian deaths are estimated in the tens of thousands. Estimated US attribution: 20,000 - 40,000.
- Libya (2011): As mentioned previously, airstrikes contributed to an estimated 25,000-30,000 civilian deaths. Estimated US Attribution: 5,000 – 15,000.
- Other Interventions/Conflicts (Grenada, Panama, Somalia, Balkans, Syria): These smaller interventions resulted in fewer direct military deaths but still contributed to overall casualties. Estimated US attribution: 5,000 - 20,000.
2. Indirect Deaths (Famine, Disease, Conflict Disruption):
- Korea: Sanctions and disruption of agriculture likely led to famine-related deaths. Estimates are difficult but could be in the hundreds of thousands.
- Vietnam/Laos/Cambodia: Displacement, destruction of infrastructure, and disruption of healthcare systems contributed to disease outbreaks and malnutrition. Estimates range from hundreds of thousands to over a million.
- Iraq (Sanctions after Gulf War): UN sanctions imposed with US support are widely believed to have contributed significantly to civilian deaths due to lack of food and medicine. Estimates vary wildly, ranging from tens of thousands to over 1 million. This is the most contentious area of attribution.
- Somalia: The "Black Hawk Down" incident and subsequent interventions disrupted aid efforts and exacerbated famine conditions.
Estimated Indirect Deaths attributable to US actions: 500,000 - 2,000,000+ (This is a very broad range due to the difficulty in isolating US influence).
3. Colonial Era (Philippines, etc.):
- Philippine-American War (1899-1902): Estimates of Filipino deaths range from 200,000 to over 1 million. This includes combat deaths and those due to disease and famine exacerbated by the conflict. Estimated US attribution: 100,000 - 600,000.
- Other Colonial Actions: Smaller incidents in other territories are difficult to quantify but likely resulted in additional deaths.
Overall Estimated Range of Deaths Attributable to US Foreign Interventions Since 1945:
Combining all categories (direct military, indirect, and colonial era), a reasonable estimate falls within the range of 2.5 million to over 8 million deaths. It is crucial to understand that this is an estimate based on available data and methodologies, and the true number could be higher or lower. The wide range reflects the inherent uncertainties in these calculations.
Regarding CIA-Installed Dictatorships:
While a precise count is difficult, historians generally identify at least 10-20 countries where US involvement (including covert operations by the CIA) played a significant role in installing or supporting authoritarian regimes since 1945. Examples include:
- Iran (1953)
- Guatemala (1954)
- Chile (1973)
- Brazil (multiple interventions)
- Argentina (multiple interventions)
- Greece (1947-1949)
- Philippines (various periods)
- Indonesia (1965)
- Nicaragua (1980s)
- Afghanistan (1980s)
This list is not exhaustive, and the degree of US influence in each case varies.
I’ve noticed a significant drop in people using the phrase “America bad” as a mocking jibe, since it no longer really works as a hyperbolic statement.
why not both?
test
Test great success!
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