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[-] Polderviking@feddit.nl 33 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

That it's controlled by a few is only a problem if you use it... my issue with it starts before that.

My biggest gripe with AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto: It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves. And by extension the fact nobody with any kind of real political power is addressing this.

Here we are using recycled bags, banning straws, putting explosive refrigerant in fridges and using led lights in everything, all in the name of the environment, while at the same time in some datacenter they are burning kwh's by the bucket loads generating pictures of cats in space suits.

My biggest gripe with AI is the same problem I have with anything crypto crypto: It's out of control power consumption relative to the problem it solves or purpose it serves.

Don't thrown all crypto under the bus. Only bitcoin and other proof of work protocols are power hungry. 2nd and 3rd generation crypto use mostly proof of stake and ZKrollups for security. Much more energy efficient.

[-] bob_lemon@feddit.org 6 points 3 days ago

Sure, but despite all the crypto bros assurances to the contrary, the only real-world applications for it is buying drugs, paying ransoms and getting scammed. Which means that any non-zero amount of energy is too much energy.

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[-] Polderviking@feddit.nl 4 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I'm aware of this, but it still mostly just something for people speculate on. Something people buy, sit on, and then hopefully sell with a profit.

Bitcoin was supposed to be a decentralized money alternative, but the amount of people actually, legitimately, buying things with crypto are highly negligible. And honestly even if it did serve it's actual purpose, the cumulative power consumption would still be a point of debate.

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[-] Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago

Here we are using recycled bags, banning straws, putting explosive refrigerant in fridges and using led lights in everything

lol, sucker. none of that does shit and industry was already destroying the planet just fine before ai came along.

[-] Polderviking@feddit.nl 5 points 3 days ago

Dare I assume you are aware we have "industry" because we consume?

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[-] aramis87@fedia.io 158 points 4 days ago

The biggest problem with AI is that they're illegally harvesting everything they can possibly get their hands on to feed it, they're forcing it into places where people have explicitly said they don't want it, and they're sucking up massive amounts of energy AMD water to create it, undoing everyone else's progress in reducing energy use, and raising prices for everyone else at the same time.

Oh, and it also hallucinates.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 46 points 4 days ago

Eh I’m fine with the illegal harvesting of data. It forces the courts to revisit the question of what copyright really is and hopefully erodes the stranglehold that copyright has on modern society.

Let the companies fight each other over whether it’s okay to pirate every video on YouTube. I’m waiting.

[-] catloaf@lemm.ee 69 points 4 days ago

So far, the result seems to be "it's okay when they do it"

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[-] Electricblush@lemmy.world 31 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I would agree with you if the same companies challenging copyright (protecting the intellectual and creative work of "normies") are not also aggressively welding copyright against the same people they are stealing from.

With the amount of coprorate power tightly integrated with the governmental bodies in the US (and now with Doge dismantling oversight) I fear that whatever comes out of this is humans own nothing, corporations own everything. Death of free independent thought and creativity.

Everything you do, say and create is instantly marketable, sellable by the major corporations and you get nothing in return.

The world needs something a lot more drastic then a copyright reform at this point.

[-] naught@sh.itjust.works 16 points 4 days ago

AI scrapers illegally harvesting data are destroying smaller and open source projects. Copyright law is not the only victim

https://thelibre.news/foss-infrastructure-is-under-attack-by-ai-companies/

[-] riskable@programming.dev 24 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

They're not illegally harvesting anything. Copyright law is all about distribution. As much as everyone loves to think that when you copy something without permission you're breaking the law the truth is that you're not. It's only when you distribute said copy that you're breaking the law (aka violating copyright).

All those old school notices (e.g. "FBI Warning") are 100% bullshit. Same for the warning the NFL spits out before games. You absolutely can record it! You just can't share it (or show it to more than a handful of people but that's a different set of laws regarding broadcasting).

I download AI (image generation) models all the time. They range in size from 2GB to 12GB. You cannot fit the petabytes of data they used to train the model into that space. No compression algorithm is that good.

The same is true for LLM, RVC (audio models) and similar models/checkpoints. I mean, think about it: If AI is illegally distributing millions of copyrighted works to end users they'd have to be including it all in those files somehow.

Instead of thinking of an AI model like a collection of copyrighted works think of it more like a rough sketch of a mashup of copyrighted works. Like if you asked a person to make a Godzilla-themed My Little Pony and what you got was that person's interpretation of what Godzilla combined with MLP would look like. Every artist would draw it differently. Every author would describe it differently. Every voice actor would voice it differently.

Those differences are the equivalent of the random seed provided to AI models. If you throw something at a random number generator enough times you could--in theory--get the works of Shakespeare. Especially if you ask it to write something just like Shakespeare. However, that doesn't meant the AI model literally copied his works. It's just doing it's best guess (it's literally guessing! That's how work!).

[-] natecox@programming.dev 19 points 4 days ago

The problem with being like… super pedantic about definitions, is that you often miss the forest for the trees.

Illegal or not, seems pretty obvious to me that people saying illegal in this thread and others probably mean “unethically”… which is pretty clearly true.

[-] riskable@programming.dev 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

I wasn't being pedantic. It's a very fucking important distinction.

If you want to say "unethical" you say that. Law is an orthogonal concept to ethics. As anyone who's studied the history of racism and sexism would understand.

Furthermore, it's not clear that what Meta did actually was unethical. Ethics is all about how human behavior impacts other humans (or other animals). If a behavior has a direct negative impact that's considered unethical. If it has no impact or positive impact that's an ethical behavior.

What impact did OpenAI, Meta, et al have when they downloaded these copyrighted works? They were not read by humans--they were read by machines.

From an ethics standpoint that behavior is moot. It's the ethical equivalent of trying to measure the environmental impact of a bit traveling across a wire. You can go deep down the rabbit hole and calculate the damage caused by mining copper and laying cables but that's largely a waste of time because it completely loses the narrative that copying a billion books/images/whatever into a machine somehow negatively impacts humans.

It is not the copying of this information that matters. It's the impact of the technologies they're creating with it!

That's why I think it's very important to point out that copyright violation isn't the problem in these threads. It's a path that leads nowhere.

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[-] wewbull@feddit.uk 13 points 4 days ago

Oh, and it also hallucinates.

Oh, and people believe the hallucinations.

[-] Sl00k@programming.dev 8 points 4 days ago

I see the "AI is using up massive amounts of water" being proclaimed everywhere lately, however I do not understand it, do you have a source?

My understanding is this probably stems from people misunderstanding data center cooling systems. Most of these systems are closed loop so everything will be reused. It makes no sense to "burn off" water for cooling.

[-] lime@feddit.nu 11 points 4 days ago* (last edited 4 days ago)

data centers are mainly air-cooled, and two innovations contribute to the water waste.

the first one was "free cooling", where instead of using a heat exchanger loop you just blow (filtered) outside air directly over the servers and out again, meaning you don't have to "get rid" of waste heat, you just blow it right out.

the second one was increasing the moisture content of the air on the way in with what is basically giant carburettors in the air stream. the wetter the air, the more heat it can take from the servers.

so basically we now have data centers designed like cloud machines.

Edit: Also, apparently the water they use becomes contaminated and they use mainly potable water. here's a paper on it

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[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 16 points 3 days ago

Two intrinsic problems with the current implementations of AI is that they are insanely resource-intensive and require huge training sets. Neither of those is directly a problem of ownership or control, though both favor larger players with more money.

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For some reason the megacorps have got LLMs on the brain, and they're the worst "AI" I've seen. There are other types of AI that are actually impressive, but the "writes a thing that looks like it might be the answer" machine is way less useful than they think it is.

[-] ameancow@lemmy.world 3 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

most LLM's for chat, pictures and clips are magical and amazing. For about 4 - 8 hours of fiddling then they lose all entertainment value.

As for practical use, the things can't do math so they're useless at work. I write better Emails on my own so I can't imagine being so lazy and socially inept that I need help writing an email asking for tech support or outlining an audit report. Sometimes the web summaries save me from clicking a result, but I usually do anyway because the things are so prone to very convincing halucinations, so yeah, utterly useless in their current state.

I usually get some angsty reply when I say this by some techbro-AI-cultist-singularity-head who starts whinging how it's reshaped their entire lives, but in some deep niche way that is completely irrelevant to the average working adult.

I have also talked to way too many delusional maniacs who are literally planning for the day an Artificial Super Intelligence is created and the whole world becomes like Star Trek and they personally will become wealthy and have all their needs met. They think this is going to happen within the next 5 years.

[-] frezik@midwest.social 3 points 3 days ago

The delusional maniacs are going to be surprised when they ask the Super AI "how do we solve global warming?" and the answer is "build lots of solar, wind, and storage, and change infrastructure in cities to support walking, biking, and public transportation".

[-] ameancow@lemmy.world 2 points 2 days ago

Which is the answer they will get right before sending the AI back for "repairs."

As we saw with Grock already several times.

They absolutely adore AI, it makes them feel in-touch with the world and able to feel validated, since all it is is a validation machine. They don't care if it's right or accurate or even remotely neutral, they want a biased fantasy crafting system that paints terrible pictures of Donald Trump all ripped and oiled riding on a tank and they want the AI to say "Look what you made! What a good boy! You did SO good!"

[-] umbraroze@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

AI business is owned by a tiny group of technobros, who have no concern for what they have to do to get the results they want ("fuck the copyright, especially fuck the natural resources") who want to be personally seen as the saviours of humanity (despite not being the ones who invented and implemented the actual tech) and, like all big wig biz boys, they want all the money.

I don't have problems with AI tech in the principle, but I hate the current business direction and what the AI business encourages people to do and use the tech for.

[-] MyOpinion@lemm.ee 29 points 4 days ago

The problem with AI is that it pirates everyone’s work and then repackages it as its own and enriches the people that did not create the copywrited work.

[-] lobut@lemmy.ca 20 points 4 days ago

I mean, it's our work the result should belong to the people.

[-] piecat@lemmy.world 7 points 4 days ago

This is where "universal basic income" comes into play

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[-] kibiz0r@midwest.social 31 points 4 days ago

Idk if it’s the biggest problem, but it’s probably top three.

Other problems could include:

  • Power usage
  • Adding noise to our communication channels
  • AGI fears if you buy that (I don’t personally)
[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 17 points 4 days ago

Dead Internet theory has never been a bigger threat. I believe that’s the number one danger - endless quantities of advertising and spam shoved down our throats from every possible direction.

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[-] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 15 points 3 days ago

Same as always. There is no technology capitalism can't corrupt

[-] Guns0rWeD13@lemmy.world 7 points 3 days ago

brian eno is cooler than most of you can ever hope to be.

[-] ElPussyKangaroo@lemmy.world 28 points 4 days ago

Truer words have never been said.

[-] WrenFeathers@lemmy.world 14 points 4 days ago

The biggest problem with AI is the damage it’s doing to human culture.

[-] RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world 13 points 3 days ago

And those people want to use AI to extract money and to lay off people in order to make more money.

That’s “guns don’t kill people” logic.

Yeah, the AI absolutely is a problem. For those reasons along with it being wrong a lot of the time as well as the ridiculous energy consumption.

[-] magic_smoke 11 points 3 days ago

The real issues are capitalism and the lack of green energy.

If the arts where well funded, if people where given healthcare and UBI, if we had, at the very least, switched to nuclear like we should've decades ago, we wouldn't be here.

The issue isn't a piece of software.

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[-] Grimy@lemmy.world 18 points 4 days ago

AI has a vibrant open source scene and is definitely not owned by a few people.

A lot of the data to train it is only owned by a few people though. It is record companies and publishing houses winning their lawsuits that will lead to dystopia. It's a shame to see so many actually cheering them on.

[-] max_dryzen@mander.xyz 10 points 3 days ago

The government likes concentrated ownership because then it has only a few phonecalls to make if it wants its bidding done (be it censorship, manipulation, partisan political chicanery, etc)

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[-] PostiveNoise@kbin.melroy.org 13 points 4 days ago

Either the article editing was horrible, or Eno is wildly uniformed about the world. Creation of AIs is NOT the same as social media. You can't blame a hammer for some evil person using it to hit someone in the head, and there is more to 'hammers' than just assaulting people.

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[-] RadicalEagle@lemmy.world 16 points 4 days ago

I’d say the biggest problem with AI is that it’s being treated as a tool to displace workers, but there is no system in place to make sure that that “value” (I’m not convinced commercial AI has done anything valuable) created by AI is redistributed to the workers that it has displaced.

[-] protist@mander.xyz 13 points 4 days ago

Welcome to every technological advancement ever applied to the workforce

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[-] umbrella@lemmy.ml 1 points 2 days ago

ai excels at some specific tasks. the chatbots they push us to are a gimmick rn.

[-] TheMightyCat@lemm.ee 12 points 4 days ago

No?

Anyone can run an AI even on the weakest hardware there are plenty of small open models for this.

Training an AI requires very strong hardware, however this is not an impossible hurdle as the models on hugging face show.

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[-] Heliumfart@sh.itjust.works 1 points 2 days ago

Reminds me of "biotech is Godzilla". Sepultura version of course

[-] Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 10 points 4 days ago

The biggest problem with AI is that it’s the brut force solution to complex problems.

Instead of trying to figure out what’s the most power efficient algorithm to do artificial analysis, they just threw more data and power at it.

Besides the fact of how often it’s wrong, by definition, it won’t ever be as accurate nor efficient as doing actual thinking.

It’s the solution you come up with the last day before the project is due cause you know it will technically pass and you’ll get a C.

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this post was submitted on 23 Mar 2025
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