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submitted 1 day ago by atro_city@fedia.io to c/europe@feddit.org

There were many lingua francas of which French was supposedly the first global lingua franca. That changed and it became English (from what I understand). We will probably see another language become the lingua franca, so my question is: should it be English? Are there better candidates out there? Why / why not?

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[-] dumblederp@aussie.zone 2 points 1 hour ago

G'day from Australia, please don't cut our borderless monolingual Island off. Kiwi's probably feel similar too.

[-] huppakee@lemm.ee 5 points 2 hours ago

The Lingua Franca didn't change because someone decided to change it, it slowly happened. You could argue it would be nice for EU if the (local) Lingua Franca would be the language of a large member state, but I don't see it happening by force. Probably better to just leave it to be English, even if the Irish are the only native speakers in the EU.

[-] keepthepace@slrpnk.net 4 points 3 hours ago

English if we want ease of communication (and is the most likely path forward)

Esperanto if the goal is to teach it to a whole generation: it is designed to be easy to understand when you already know one European language (especially a latin one I think?)

Chinese if the goal is to speak the language of the dominant non European power in the next century

[-] lensipensi@lemm.ee 7 points 7 hours ago

Logical thinking I would think English should stay. It is by far the most known foreign language in Europe.

[-] ICastFist@programming.dev 2 points 5 hours ago

Anything but english or french. Yes, I'm willing to put up even with brainfuck as a spoken language

[-] atro_city@fedia.io 2 points 5 hours ago

TIL brainfuck is a thing. The stuff people come up with 🤣

[-] sith@lemmy.zip 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Lojban! Though esperanto maybe is more reasonable.

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 7 points 11 hours ago

Question is, what should be the criteria for deciding which other language?

If it is for the sake of current global usability, English remains top.

If it is for geostrategic considerations, Spanish, French and Arabic would be the languages to cover South and Central America, large parts of Africa and West Asia.

If it is for population dominance inside the EU, it would be German, which probably will ruffle some feathers. If it is for population dominance in Europe, it should be Russian, which will ruffle a lot of feathers.

[-] MordercaSkurwysyn@lemm.ee 8 points 12 hours ago

I'm too lazy to learn another language. Pick from English and Polish, alright?

[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 5 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

It made us Brits lazy. There's little reason for people to learn other languages due to English being so popular as a second language.

Don't get me wrong, there are people. But I don't know many people that can speak other languages. I am actually envious of others that do.

It simply amazes me when someone can speak multiple languages.

[-] hadek@lemmings.world 2 points 4 hours ago

As a tri-lingual belgian I feel that so much. (more of a poly-lingual because I speak 5 languages)

I'm super fluent in belgian dutch and belgian french, so whenever I swap (which I do without thinking, I will always answer in whatever language is spoken to me) people

[-] Swarfega@lemm.ee 1 points 2 hours ago
[-] quatschkopf43@feddit.org 131 points 1 day ago

I think we are at a point now where almost everybody in Europe is able to speak at least some English. So cultural exchange has never been easier. Why make it more difficult again by adding another language people have to learn first?

[-] fartsparkles@lemmy.world 30 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

As a Brit (but European at heart and strong “Remain” voter), I am quick to remind fellow Brits that English is a language heavily derived from our European ancestors: French, Latin, Germanic (Proto-Germanic, “Old English”, Old Norse, Romance, etc), Greek, Dutch, Spanish, and more.

I know the United Kingdom has been a royal asshat throughout the centuries but the mark of Europe is intense and undeniable; without Europe, there is no such thing as the English language ~~(except perhaps a number of proper nouns that are rooted in the Celtic people and their ancestors)~~ [Edit: see crappywittyname’s comment below].

I hope our European siblings can find solace in the fact that “English” is a distinctly European language that is full of words from all of our tongues.

[-] crapwittyname@lemm.ee 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

The Celtic languages are closely related to European languages such as Breton, the ancestor languages having been developed and spoken widely in Europe pre-Roman conquest.
I'm only being picky because it adds even more support to your (already very fine) argument. You don't even need that caveat.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

English has a blend of Germanic and Romantic features, which is nice for Europe, and no inflections to memorise, which is nice in addition. You could also argue that no grammatical gender is a positive feature.

On the downside, the orthography is ass, so maybe there should be a new EU-standard fonetik version. The contractions are confusing. A non-native speaker can maybe add some more, but that's all I've heard about.

[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 11 hours ago

Spoken English and written English are two different languages that have different features and different design flaws.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 2 hours ago

And one of the flaws of written English is that is has no spoken equivalent, haha!

[-] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 4 points 21 hours ago

We could also use this as a chance to push Esperanto!

Gi estis desegnita por ci tiu specifa afero! (Please forgive me its been a while haha)

[-] troglodyte_mignon@lemmy.world 4 points 22 hours ago

As a non-native speaker, I’d say that your summary of the upsides and downsides matches my experience.

maybe there should be a new EU-standard fonetik version.

Or maybe it’s finally time for Shavian alphabet to shine!

[-] Hans@feddit.dk 5 points 10 hours ago

Reminds me of an old joke:

The European Commission has just announced an agreement whereby English will be the official language of the European Union rather than German, which was the other possibility.

As part of the negotiations, the British Government conceded that English spelling had some room for improvement and has accepted a 5- year phase-in plan that would become known as "Euro-English".

In the first year, "s" will replace the soft "c". Sertainly, this will make the sivil servants jump with joy. The hard "c" will be dropped in favour of "k". This should klear up konfusion, and keyboards kan have one less letter.

There will be growing publik enthusiasm in the sekond year when the troublesome "ph" will be replaced with "f". This will make words like fotograf 20% shorter.

In the 3rd year, publik akseptanse of the new spelling kan be expekted to reach the stage where more komplikated changes are possible.

Governments will enkourage the removal of double letters which have always ben a deterent to akurate speling.

Also, al wil agre that the horibl mes of the silent "e" in the languag is disgrasful and it should go away.

By the 4th yer peopl wil be reseptiv to steps such as replasing "th" with "z" and "w" with "v".

During ze fifz yer, ze unesesary "o" kan be dropd from vords kontaining "ou" and after ziz fifz yer, ve vil hav a reil sensi bl riten styl.

Zer vil be no mor trubl or difikultis and evrivun vil find it ezi TU understand ech oza. Ze drem of a united urop vil finali kum tru.

Und efter ze fifz yer, ve vil al be speking German like zey vunted in ze forst plas.

[-] twopi@lemmy.ca 1 points 13 hours ago

This is awesome. Would like to try this with Anglish (https://anglish.org/wiki/Anglish) to make a true English English.

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[-] Ole10@lemm.ee 9 points 22 hours ago

Isn't the new official EU language irish English? I speak english with heavy german accent, can this be the ligua franca?

[-] Saleh@feddit.org 3 points 11 hours ago

Sunk uu for trawelling wiss Deutsche Bahn AG

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 6 points 20 hours ago

@atro_city I remember a few years ago there was a French far-right group or something that proposed Latin to be the lingua franca instead, lol. But I haven't heard anything since.

[-] khannie@lemmy.world 5 points 20 hours ago

I'm so old that I actually studied Latin in school though I wouldn't be surprised if my school still teaches it.

To be honest it was really useful as a base language for learning French and I've always found it easy to pick up bits quickly and get about easily in Spain and Italy as a result.

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though. Would not recommend as a Lingua Franca.

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 3 points 20 hours ago

@khannie I studied it too, but a Romanic language is already my native one, so I found it even less useful. Glad I escaped alive.

[-] idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works 53 points 1 day ago

English is a global lingua franca, not just european. And it's not just because of the american and british influence, but because it's a relatively easy language.

Also the translator programs are better and better, this is actually a good and fitting usecase of current LLMs. I think we are not far away from the babel fish.

[-] RandomStickman@fedia.io 18 points 1 day ago

but because it's a relatively easy language

I literally cried learning English as a kid lol

[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 25 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Now try to learn Portuguese, or German, or Russian. English has wonky phonetics, but has a relatively simple grammar. As a bonus it's not properly standardized, so whatever you come up with is going to be correct in at least one of the existing dialects.

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[-] DonAntonioMagino@feddit.nl 26 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

A lingua franca isn’t decided upon, it just happens to become one because of some power its speakers hold. In the Indonesian archipelago, Malay became a lingua franca because it was used by traders. In Europe, French was a lingua franca because French held a large amount of prestige among the European nobility. Now, English is the global lingua franca because English-speaking media have dominated the global media landscape.

If you want there to be another lingua franca in Europe, that language will somehow need to attain a good reason for it to become one. You can’t just pass a law proclaiming it now being ‘the lingua franca of Europe’.

Forcing people to speak eg. German by law might work, though you’ll probably have to be prepared to coerce people into actually doing so, and thus will have to ask yourself whether that’s worth it. Otherwise, there’s a good chance people will not really give a shit about your stupid law.

You could also maybe abolish all EU level accommodation for other languages than the official language in a new federalised Europe. Then, if you want anything done at that level, you have no choice but to use the official, non-English, language. This seems like it might spur an elitist environment where only a small layer of Europeans (outside of the country from which the speakers of the official language originate) will generally be able to speak that language.

This all seems a bit fantastical, though. Unless Europeans en masse stop consuming English language media, and at the same time start consuming the media of one specific other language (thus it’s a movement away from English and toward some other language by language users themselves), there won’t be a new lingua franca in Europe.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 8 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 23 hours ago)

Latinam magnam iterum faciamus. 😎 🥂 🧐

[-] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 5 points 22 hours ago

Not even my hate for the US or Britain is enough for me to learn Latin. I had this shit for 5 years and I didnt learn anything. Fuck this bullshit.

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[-] misk@sopuli.xyz 42 points 1 day ago

It’s not possible to please everybody so I vote for Basque and pleasing nobody.

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[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago

It's because of the network effect. If you only know your local language and want to unlock speaking to the rest of the world when learning English gets you pretty far.

A lot of people start learning English because a lot of people speak English. Since now Europe, North America, half of Africa, Middle East, South Asia, Latin America, Oceania speak English to some extent that I know of.

It's absolutely bonkers how far English has gotten in one generation so learning anything else as a second language is pretty weird.

[-] aleq@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago

It's gonna be Chinese whether y'all like it or not.

[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 1 points 10 hours ago
[-] aleq@lemmy.world 2 points 8 hours ago

The national language of China, the one virtually every Chinese person means if they say "Chinese". Mandarin.

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this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2025
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