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submitted 17 hours ago by atro_city@fedia.io to c/europe@feddit.org

There were many lingua francas of which French was supposedly the first global lingua franca. That changed and it became English (from what I understand). We will probably see another language become the lingua franca, so my question is: should it be English? Are there better candidates out there? Why / why not?

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[-] olafurp@lemmy.world 3 points 5 hours ago

It's because of the network effect. If you only know your local language and want to unlock speaking to the rest of the world when learning English gets you pretty far.

A lot of people start learning English because a lot of people speak English. Since now Europe, North America, half of Africa, Middle East, South Asia, Latin America, Oceania speak English to some extent that I know of.

It's absolutely bonkers how far English has gotten in one generation so learning anything else as a second language is pretty weird.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 11 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

English has a blend of Germanic and Romantic features, which is nice for Europe, and no inflections to memorise, which is also nice. You could also argue that no grammatical gender is a positive feature.

On the downside, the orthography is ass, so maybe there should be a new EU-standard fonetik version. The contractions are confusing. A non-native speaker can maybe add some more, but that's all I've heard about.

[-] troglodyte_mignon@lemmy.world 3 points 7 hours ago

As a non-native speaker, I’d say that your summary of the upsides and downsides matches my experience.

maybe there should be a new EU-standard fonetik version.

Or maybe it’s finally time for Shavian alphabet to shine!

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 2 points 6 hours ago

Wow, I had never actually heard of that!

[-] thesdev@feddit.org 1 points 6 hours ago

If that intrigues you, you should perhaps watch this, or follow the guy in general https://youtu.be/UAI3g6zVyAI

[-] Lv_InSaNe_vL@lemmy.world 2 points 6 hours ago

We could also use this as a chance to push Esperanto!

Gi estis desegnita por ci tiu specifa afero! (Please forgive me its been a while haha)

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 3 points 5 hours ago

@atro_city I remember a few years ago there was a French far-right group or something that proposed Latin to be the lingua franca instead, lol. But I haven't heard anything since.

[-] khannie@lemmy.world 4 points 5 hours ago

I'm so old that I actually studied Latin in school though I wouldn't be surprised if my school still teaches it.

To be honest it was really useful as a base language for learning French and I've always found it easy to pick up bits quickly and get about easily in Spain and Italy as a result.

Doesn't exactly roll off the tongue though. Would not recommend as a Lingua Franca.

[-] petrescatraian@libranet.de 3 points 5 hours ago

@khannie I studied it too, but a Romanic language is already my native one, so I found it even less useful. Glad I escaped alive.

[-] Ole10@lemm.ee 5 points 6 hours ago

Isn't the new official EU language irish English? I speak english with heavy german accent, can this be the ligua franca?

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 5 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Latinam magnam iterum faciamus. 😎 🥂 🧐

[-] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 4 points 6 hours ago

Not even my hate for the US or Britain is enough for me to learn Latin. I had this shit for 5 years and I didnt learn anything. Fuck this bullshit.

[-] Gsus4@mander.xyz 2 points 6 hours ago* (last edited 6 hours ago)

Yea, I think English might become the glue between languages that will strengthen, not weaken the EU, same with the Indian Union (they are both Eurasian peninsulas too :D)

[-] RichieRich@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

😂😂😂 I had to learn this crap for 5 years, too. And all I can remember is the one sentence which I learned:

"Gallia est divisa in partes tres."

But I don't know for what this is good for. 🤭

[-] cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 1 points 5 hours ago

I know the first few sentences from the first lection of my first Latin book

Uni est Quintus? Quintus in hortus est. Quinte, Quinte, Caecilia clamat"

That basically all I remember.

[-] RichieRich@lemmy.world 1 points 4 hours ago

🤔 when I see this: do you mean "Ubi est"?

My first sentence was: "Marcus silvam currit." 😂

[-] calavera@lemm.ee 1 points 5 hours ago
[-] RichieRich@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Ja, warum nicht Deutsch? Deutsch ist in Europa sehr weit verbreitet und wird von vielen Sprechern auch als Zweitsprache gesprochen. 😉

So, why is it English and not German? Because immigrants in the US decided to speak English. And there are so many people who can understand at least a few words in English. But as a German I'd prefer German, too. It is spoken by many Europeans.

Je suis désolé, chers Français, mon français est trop mauvais pour que je recommande que cela soit recommandé comme la principale chose européenne. 😂

[-] quatschkopf43@feddit.org 112 points 16 hours ago

I think we are at a point now where almost everybody in Europe is able to speak at least some English. So cultural exchange has never been easier. Why make it more difficult again by adding another language people have to learn first?

[-] fartsparkles@lemmy.world 27 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

As a Brit (but European at heart and strong “Remain” voter), I am quick to remind fellow Brits that English is a language heavily derived from our European ancestors: French, Latin, Germanic (Proto-Germanic, “Old English”, Old Norse, Romance, etc), Greek, Dutch, Spanish, and more.

I know the United Kingdom has been a royal asshat throughout the centuries but the mark of Europe is intense and undeniable; without Europe, there is no such thing as the English language ~~(except perhaps a number of proper nouns that are rooted in the Celtic people and their ancestors)~~ [Edit: see crappywittyname’s comment below].

I hope our European siblings can find solace in the fact that “English” is a distinctly European language that is full of words from all of our tongues.

[-] crapwittyname@lemm.ee 8 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

The Celtic languages are closely related to European languages such as Breton, the ancestor languages having been developed and spoken widely in Europe pre-Roman conquest.
I'm only being picky because it adds even more support to your (already very fine) argument. You don't even need that caveat.

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 5 points 9 hours ago

I'll laugh my ass off if it's French, I'll really have had the bilingual easy mode languages if that happens.

[-] DonAntonioMagino@feddit.nl 25 points 13 hours ago* (last edited 13 hours ago)

A lingua franca isn’t decided upon, it just happens to become one because of some power its speakers hold. In the Indonesian archipelago, Malay became a lingua franca because it was used by traders. In Europe, French was a lingua franca because French held a large amount of prestige among the European nobility. Now, English is the global lingua franca because English-speaking media have dominated the global media landscape.

If you want there to be another lingua franca in Europe, that language will somehow need to attain a good reason for it to become one. You can’t just pass a law proclaiming it now being ‘the lingua franca of Europe’.

Forcing people to speak eg. German by law might work, though you’ll probably have to be prepared to coerce people into actually doing so, and thus will have to ask yourself whether that’s worth it. Otherwise, there’s a good chance people will not really give a shit about your stupid law.

You could also maybe abolish all EU level accommodation for other languages than the official language in a new federalised Europe. Then, if you want anything done at that level, you have no choice but to use the official, non-English, language. This seems like it might spur an elitist environment where only a small layer of Europeans (outside of the country from which the speakers of the official language originate) will generally be able to speak that language.

This all seems a bit fantastical, though. Unless Europeans en masse stop consuming English language media, and at the same time start consuming the media of one specific other language (thus it’s a movement away from English and toward some other language by language users themselves), there won’t be a new lingua franca in Europe.

[-] aleq@lemmy.world 13 points 11 hours ago

It's gonna be Chinese whether y'all like it or not.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 7 hours ago

Eh, maybe, maybe not. They aren't really the juggernaut they used to be, and their birth rate is now below replacement so there's no "they'll just outbreed us" jerk to do, even.

[-] idegenszavak@sh.itjust.works 48 points 16 hours ago

English is a global lingua franca, not just european. And it's not just because of the american and british influence, but because it's a relatively easy language.

Also the translator programs are better and better, this is actually a good and fitting usecase of current LLMs. I think we are not far away from the babel fish.

[-] Enkrod@feddit.org 1 points 8 hours ago

It's a lingua franca, and I don't even think it's about being easy to learn... avalanche effects are completely sufficient to explain its status. Many people already speak English, so more people learn English to speak with them, now even more people speak English, and so on, and so forth... the development of any lingua franca only depends on the ability to talk to as many people as possible. It's absolutely a bonus if it's easy and quickens the process, but at some point the pure amount of speakers outside ones own country becomes the overwhelming factor.

[-] RandomStickman@fedia.io 15 points 16 hours ago

but because it's a relatively easy language

I literally cried learning English as a kid lol

[-] jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 15 hours ago)

Now try to learn Portuguese, or German, or Russian. English has wonky phonetics, but has a relatively simple grammar. As a bonus it's not properly standardized, so whatever you come up with is going to be correct in at least one of the existing dialects.

[-] CyberEgg@discuss.tchncs.de 9 points 15 hours ago* (last edited 14 hours ago)

Plus English has influences from everywhere. In my oral abitur exam, I got stuck once or twice and made up words by anglicizing the pronounciantion of french words gaining extra points and impressed faces.

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[-] misk@sopuli.xyz 39 points 16 hours ago

It’s not possible to please everybody so I vote for Basque and pleasing nobody.

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[-] plactagonic@sopuli.xyz 15 points 15 hours ago

No, most people are pragmatic in this case and eastern countries changed from Russian ~30 years ago so another change isn't coming any time soon.

As my parents saw the change from "it is really appreciated that you can speak English" to "it is expected that you can use it". I can tell that it is so engrained in our multinational exchange that it won't be even desirable.

[-] Vernal@lemm.ee 12 points 14 hours ago

English is mostly used in commercial now, changing it would be costly and you would need the commitment of many others people to accept a new change in how to approach the world or just Europe, it's a tipe of commitment I doubt people would be willingly to accept.

[-] kbal@fedia.io 7 points 13 hours ago

let's all switch to Sumerian.

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[-] Asfalttikyntaja@sopuli.xyz 5 points 13 hours ago

Would be great to switch to mandarin. /s for all you humourless.

[-] Kissaki@feddit.org 1 points 9 hours ago

Let's switch to (a) sign language.

[-] CanadaPlus@lemmy.sdf.org 1 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

No more long-winded politicians. Their arms will get tired too fast. And, no more edgy podcasts, because no podcasts will be possible.

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this post was submitted on 10 Mar 2025
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