177

Asking after the privacy debacle and manifest. I'm not keeping up closely, but iirc Firefox is the browser recommended because of Ublock. After the privacy data issue I've noticed broken trust from Firefox users, recommendations in favor of switching browsers, and predictions saying Firefox is going downhill fast and that their forks won't be maintained for much longer.

So I'm here asking the seasoned sailors' thoughts, aye. Is this just a storm passing by or are you really considering jumping ship?

top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 161 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It's mostly overblown. You can watch here or read here. The internet is overreacting again, but Mozilla has done fuck all to grasp why just yoinking understandable language and expecting people to understand legalese and draw lines to their Privacy Policy is making people upset or confused.

Imo, people jumping ship is justified, because a company that makes $37M just on investments should do better about being vocal and prescient champions of privacy. Even if their actual privacy policy is the same as it was a year ago, their failure to communicate with their supporters in a way they can understand should have consequences.

[-] dicksteele@lemm.ee 82 points 1 month ago

It may be overblown but I am seriously tired of the way Mozilla is being run. The CEO has a $7 million salary. Big red flags always appear each time they increase the salary also. May be a bit hyperbolic but that’s why I’m just using another fork after 20 years

[-] Telorand@reddthat.com 18 points 1 month ago

Yeah, and while I don't have any technical qualms about the direction of Mozilla with regard to Firefox, I'm personally switching for peace of mind and because of the aforementioned inability to communicate well. I don't like working with or supporting people that can't just say what they mean. I mean, how hard would it have been to have a human-readable version for stupid people like me and have a legalese version for the lawyers?

Regardless, as people make decisions, they deserve to be informed. It would be stupid to decide to leave Firefox if all you knew was the uninformed outrage of the internet.

[-] dicksteele@lemm.ee 10 points 1 month ago

That’s fair. Personally I should have called it quits when they started including pocket in the browser, but better late than never.

load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Coldmoon@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 month ago

That’s my take too - it’s probably not a big deal but damn Mozilla, do better in the rollout of a change like that.

[-] Gormadt 62 points 1 month ago

I still recommend it with a little asterisk:

Disable a bunch of shit in it or download a privacy focused fork of it (like Librewolf)

[-] thisismyname@lemm.ee 25 points 1 month ago

That asterisk is a problem though, having to go through and make it secure is an issue. What if you miss a setting? What if you misunderstand a setting? None of it is particularly upfront and easy. It doesn't ask you when you first install it to set this stuff up, it encourages you to just get stuck in and start using it straight away.

It's not too complicated for a nerd whose hobby is computers or someone who has studied computers, but for the layperson it's too much.

That's why Librewolf is so good. It's secure by default, with all the settings toggled to privacy and you can ease that off if you wish, for convenience or whatever.

Firefox essentially can't seem to decide if they want to be FOSS or capitalist, that's an issue.

[-] Coldmoon@sh.itjust.works 17 points 1 month ago

The other fun part is when it updates and changes your privacy settings.

[-] ragebutt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 month ago

And based on the behavior of other shitty applications and devices what if an update silently changes one of those settings back to a problematic state? If they aren’t there to begin with I don’t have to worry as much

To be fair Mozilla doesn’t have precedent for this behavior but they also didn’t have precedent for this whole nonsense that started this drama a month ago. Things change

[-] Ilandar@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

It’s not too complicated for a nerd whose hobby is computers or someone who has studied computers, but for the layperson it’s too much.

I'm not sure I buy this argument when there are videos visually walking you through every single step involved in hardening Firefox. Is that still too complex for your elderly parents or grandparents? Maybe. Is it too complex for Millenials and younger generations? Definitely not. The core problem here is just laziness. People are not willing to give up 10 minutes of their day to setup their browser for years of future use because "I don't have time for that".

[-] thisismyname@lemm.ee 6 points 1 month ago

The problem is not laziness, that's what a nerd whose hobby is computers would do. The average person is not searching for videos to learn how to toggle the settings of their web browser, ffs. Firefox should be secure by default.

load more comments (3 replies)
load more comments (1 replies)
[-] Ilandar@lemm.ee 42 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

and predictions saying Firefox is going downhill fast and that their forks won’t be maintained for much longer.

Possibly true, but abandoning ship is only bringing us closer to that timeline. People seem to be completely ignorant/delusional about how much work these forks will require to maintain if Mozilla's full time employees stop working on Firefox. If you have a practical reason to use another fork (like maybe a feature Firefox doesn't have) then I totally understand using that instead, but if you are simply making some kind of ethical protest change like all the new LibreWolf users who are so loudly virtue signalling at the moment then you need to think seriously about whether this course of action will ultimately end up hurting your ideals. Mozilla definitely has a big communication problem and I understand the desire to distance oneself from an organisation that repeatedly disrespects its supporters and never learns from its mistakes, as it is very fatiguing to endure their constant failures and the massive fall-outs from them, but ultimately I feel like switching away from Firefox is still an emotional decision rather than a rational one.

load more comments (6 replies)
[-] jeena@piefed.jeena.net 41 points 1 month ago
[-] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 month ago

Using this as an opportunity to promote the LibreWolf community on Lemmy: !librewolf@lemmy.ml as well as their new Mastodon account: @librewolf@chaos.social

I'm not affiliated with them btw

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com 38 points 1 month ago

I like LibreWolf, it's a privacy and security focused fork of Firefox.

But I'm really looking forward to Servo, hopefully it becomes usable one day.

[-] PiratePanPan@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 month ago

Servo and Ladybird both look like the future of the web.

load more comments (7 replies)
load more comments (2 replies)
[-] simpolomeo 37 points 1 month ago

The whole firefox controversy was overblown. Hardened firefox is still the way to go.

[-] erotador 36 points 1 month ago

well Firefox may enshittify, it's still the best option imo, certainly better than chrome or anything chrome based. even better if you use a privacy focused fork like librewolf.

there are other options out there, you can look into qt browsers, those were the basis for webkit browsers. hopefully soon things like servo/verso become more useable.

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 month ago

The UX of Librewolf sucks ass though. Want to change this setting? Well you can't, too bad.

[-] ZeroHora@lemmy.ml 13 points 1 month ago

How the UX of librewolf is different from the UX of Firefox?

[-] otto@sh.itjust.works 21 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

A lot of options are disabled for “privacy reasons”. There is no halfway approach. It’s all or nothing with their strict privacy settings.

For some, that’s perfect. For others, who want a more tailored privacy experience, it’s not a really great option.

[-] Ulrich@feddit.org 10 points 1 month ago

It doesn't suck, it's just not intended for casual users, which is why I chuckle when I see it recommended. That and Mullvad browser. I'd pretty much just recommend TOR over those, if you're really going for strict privacy.

For something that strikes a good balance, I use Zen.

load more comments (15 replies)
[-] LiveLM@lemmy.zip 33 points 1 month ago

I mean yeah. I'm not a fan of the changes but there's no way in hell anything Chromium based will fare any better... do they even have uBlock still???

Probably turn off the telemetry, try a fork like LibreWolf or maybe the Arkenfox user.js if you'd rather stay close to upstream.

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] cupcakezealot 32 points 1 month ago

i wasn't as plussed as everyone else over it, though i am concerned. i still donate to mozilla as, ultimately, i believe they're still good for those who champion an ethical, open, and not for profit internet.

i have switched to librefox, though, just because i like their developers and the fact that they've embraced mastodon and the fediverse. i also have firefox and nightly (though i use fennec on android because it comes through f droid)

load more comments (5 replies)
[-] yozul@beehaw.org 29 points 1 month ago

I'm not interested in anything based off Chromium, and I don't really like the idea of going with a Firefox fork much either. You're not only trusting them to actually care about your privacy and security, and you're not even just trusting them to actually catch and fix all of Mozilla's shenanigans as well. You are also trusting them to constantly stay on top of all the latest security patches. There aren't really any Firefox forks I trust with all 3 of those things at once. Even if there was, there are certainly no forks of Firefox that have anything even remotely close to the capacity necessary to maintain a web engine on their own, so you're still trusting Mozilla to keep Firefox updated and secure for your fork of choice to even have a chance.

Until a new browser with a new engine comes along that actually lets me use the full uBlock Origin there's not really any other option besides Firefox that makes sense. At least to me.

[-] zonnewin@feddit.nl 24 points 1 month ago

I would say no. With the recent debacle the writing is on the wall. Mozilla is not taking our privacy seriously. So, I have switched away from vanilla Firefox.

I would recommend using a fork instead: LibreWolf, or Floorp, or Zen; and Ironfox on Android. Mullvad Browser is another option.

[-] Goodtoknow@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 month ago

Floorp is kinda sketchy these days, it went closed source, then maybe reopen sourced. I would say Zen is the better pick. and on Android Fennec is a great Privacy fork of Firefox.

[-] Eyck_of_denesle@lemmy.zip 6 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Not maybe. It is open source. It never went close sourced, Dev made it source available till they figured out the future of the project.

Also I won't recommend zen cause it's in beta. It's way too unstable and the dev is no better at handling situations like above. But if you dont mind stability, zen is definitely really good feature wise

load more comments (4 replies)
[-] mesamunefire@piefed.social 24 points 1 month ago

Links2 is obviously the best browser. #links2gang

But librewolf is pretty neat.

[-] GnuLinuxDude@lemmy.ml 24 points 1 month ago

Firefox with like 10 different settings checkboxes unticked through its settings to disable phoning home, prevent sponsored suggestions, prevent recommendations, etc. + ublock origin extension installed, obviously.

It used to be just an install and go ordeal. Now you have to have all these caveats. I used to send technical and interaction to Mozilla but given their terms changes I can’t be confident in them with even that much information anymore.

Final thought is I don’t see what Mozilla’s endgame is. It costs a lot of money to develop a competitive and impactful web browser, I understand that much. Where are they supposed to get their money from? Well. I don’t get paid millions a year to solve this problem, but it seems pretty obvious the current leadership have made their minds up to make Firefox yet another advertisement browser.

load more comments (3 replies)
[-] infinitesunrise@slrpnk.net 22 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

The browser project dedicated to open web standards steered by a compromised non-profit or the browser project dedicated to undermining the traditional web browsing experience steered by the largest advertising company on Earth ... Let me think ...

[-] veniasilente@lemm.ee 16 points 1 month ago

It's incredible unfunny to read people here on Lemmy (or in the Fediverse in general) talk about dropping Firefox for Chrome or a Chromium browser. it's like complaining that your country is going wrong by voting Trump.

[-] DARbarian@fedia.io 21 points 1 month ago

Nope. LibreWolf & Waterfox are top-tier, Zen and Mullvad Browsers aren't bad at all

[-] EveryMuffinIsNowEncrypted 6 points 1 month ago

I will say as nice as Zen seems (I agree that it's not bad), I don't really like the whole "vertical tabs" shtick. I mean, I can see why some people would like that, but personally I never got into it. It just looks weird to me and I like seeing more of my tab names (weirdly enough that's exactly what a lot of pro-vertical users claim is good about them lol).

Also, from a privacy standpoint, not a huge fan personally of the fact that unlike LibreWolf, Zen Browser doesn't have ResistFingerprinting enabled by default (not sure if it's even in there tbh).

[-] ocean@lemmy.selfhostcat.com 5 points 1 month ago

Right? To me it’s the opposite of minimal.

load more comments (1 replies)
load more comments (4 replies)
[-] kevincox@lemmy.ml 20 points 1 month ago

I still recommend it. I'm not fully happy with the situation but for now I consider it my best option.

  1. I consider Chromium-based browsers out of the question as they give too much power to Google. This is already showing to be a problem with new APIs and "features" that Google is pushing into the web platform and the bigger the market share gets the more control they have.
  2. Web browsers are the biggest attack surface that most people have. Displaying untrusted webpages and running untrusted code is incredibly difficult and vulnerabilities are regularly discovered. I don't yet know a Firefox fork that I trust enough to reliably respond to security vulnerabilities quickly and correctly.

So for now I am staying with raw Firefox. Not to mention that as a disto-built Firefox I have some insulation from Mozilla's ToS. But I am very much considering some of the forks, especially the ones that are very light with patches and are mostly configuration tweaks.

[-] LoveSausage@discuss.tchncs.de 19 points 1 month ago* (last edited 1 month ago)

Yea sticking with firefox , but with arkenfox hardening.. bugfixes are more important than fear of some wordings , at least for now. Vanadium in GOS on the phone.

[-] giddy@aussie.zone 16 points 1 month ago

I am sticking with Firefox but looking at hardening with https://github.com/yokoffing/BetterFox

load more comments (2 replies)
[-] efscher@lemmit.nyc.what.if.ua 10 points 1 month ago

I switched to Floorp about a month ago.

https://floorp.app/en

[-] Arfman@aussie.zone 9 points 1 month ago

It seems the alternatives are worse but I'm definitely trying out one of the Firefox forks

[-] warrenson@lemmy.nz 8 points 1 month ago

Just switched to Floorp. Loving it.

[-] Turturtley@aussie.zone 8 points 1 month ago

I’ll put my vote in for LibreWolf. Happy to help anyone with a ‘i can’t get librewolf to…’ or ‘this site is broken on librewolf’, etc to help you tweak it.

But i keep both installed. Libre for my daily driver. FF if there’s a site that i absolutely need to be identifiable for.

load more comments (4 replies)
load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 07 Mar 2025
177 points (100.0% liked)

Piracy: ꜱᴀɪʟ ᴛʜᴇ ʜɪɢʜ ꜱᴇᴀꜱ

59954 readers
532 users here now

⚓ Dedicated to the discussion of digital piracy, including ethical problems and legal advancements.

Rules • Full Version

1. Posts must be related to the discussion of digital piracy

2. Don't request invites, trade, sell, or self-promote

3. Don't request or link to specific pirated titles, including DMs

4. Don't submit low-quality posts, be entitled, or harass others



Loot, Pillage, & Plunder

📜 c/Piracy Wiki (Community Edition):

🏴‍☠️ Other communities

Torrenting/P2P:

Gaming:


💰 Please help cover server costs.

Ko-Fi Liberapay
Ko-fi Liberapay

founded 2 years ago
MODERATORS