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submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/canada@lemmy.ca
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[-] Onemadmother@lemmy.ca 5 points 5 hours ago

They cannot be trusted, that much we know. We need to become independent and not reliant

[-] HighFructoseLowStand@lemm.ee 8 points 6 hours ago

Existing provokes Trump.

[-] HugeNerd@lemmy.ca 6 points 6 hours ago

We shouldn't have caved back in the Arrow days.

[-] Bzdalderon@lemmy.ca 5 points 7 hours ago

Bring back the avro arrow. Let's do it.

[-] redlemace@lemmy.world 31 points 12 hours ago

As should europe. Clearly you can't trust the USA anymore. What is the long-term prospect for spare parts?

[-] Iceman@lemmy.world 7 points 7 hours ago

From what I've heard you need a password that changes on the daily to start a F-35 and that the US are the only ones that can provide it. If that is true, it's a tremendous oversite for any sovereign state.

[-] redlemace@lemmy.world 1 points 2 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

wait......WHAT??? it doesn't sound unlikely (tesla can be disabled remotely by tesla), but why would you buy it in such case? That's why I voted the piracy party a couple of times. Not because I fully agree, but just to get people with at least some IT knowledge in

[-] AbsoluteChicagoDog@lemm.ee 2 points 5 hours ago

There's no way that's true, right?

[-] BevsDad@lemmy.ca 2 points 2 hours ago

Quick search seems to say that US planes might have the code thing but exported planes don't. Although they do have control over updates and the code for everyone except for Israel that requested access to the code before buying.

[-] discgolf138@lemmy.zip 2 points 12 hours ago

and could we ever trust Canada or Europe? doubt it duh

[-] keyez@lemmy.world 12 points 8 hours ago

Yes we can. - an actual patriotic American not in a cult

[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

Where do your doubts come from? Please be specific.

[-] formulaBonk@lemm.ee 18 points 11 hours ago

“No u” come on with the childish shit. Yes we could trust Europe you dumb dumb. America literally wouldn’t exist without French support but you wanna be a contrarian so bad you just ignore everything and type out this moronic dribble

[-] ANNOFlo@lemmy.world 8 points 11 hours ago

You can even look into much closer history - look at the participants of Enduring Freedom. Nice to see how respected the life's of our citizens, who died in Afghanistan or elsewhere, are to people like that.

[-] jaemo@sh.itjust.works 2 points 7 hours ago

Spoken like someone from the very very shallowest side of the gene pool. You're a mouth and an anus and not much else.

[-] ANNOFlo@lemmy.world 11 points 11 hours ago

Kindly - shut up. All those countries you don't trust followed America into Afghanistan, many into other wars. All lost citizens in support of American and joint interests, we did our part, as allies should. Guess we now know who is the real untrustworthy partner, and I doubt any of us will forget the betrayal anytime soon.

[-] leftytighty@slrpnk.net 4 points 9 hours ago

I hope your country survives people like you

[-] figjam@midwest.social 1 points 11 hours ago
[-] Scott_of_the_Arctic@lemmy.world 5 points 12 hours ago

We should throw some cash at Saab and see if they can come up with a stealth gripen or something.

[-] ayyy@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

Careful, that’s how you end up with cool sedans and hatchbacks.

[-] daellat@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago

Europe already has a program for a 6th gen in the works for 2040 or 2050. Saab should join it! However in the meanwhile the gripen-e is an excellent aircraft yes.

[-] ToiletFlushShowerScream@lemmy.world 35 points 21 hours ago

The aircraft has significant security risks for sure and makes sense to cancel. But canceling the order won't be on Trump's radar unless it affects his inner circle of evil billionaires who have funneled dark money to him.

[-] Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 29 points 21 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

Canada should cancel the F-35 contract and their are better fighter jets from reliable NATO allies. The F-35 is a $2 trillion USD turd that is still not 100%. If Canada continues to purchase US weapons, this would be like Poland buying weapons from Nazi Germany. I am hoping the US MIC becomes pissed off.

[-] Maiq@lemy.lol 14 points 20 hours ago

2 trillion is a fuckload of drones!

[-] RaskolnikovsAxe@lemmy.ca 33 points 23 hours ago

Goddamn right we should. Take the French up on the offer to build the Rafale here. Or the Swedes. And get a few demo units for short term.

Fuck 'em on any cancellation fees too. Consider it partial compensation for the ridiculous trade war.

[-] xzot746@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

There was an article last week discussing how that plane calls home every day and that it can be blocked by the Americans. They can shut all of them down within 24 hours.

Time to nope right out of that contract.

[-] NIB@lemmy.world 5 points 15 hours ago

None of those airplanes even have similar capabilities. Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.

The only alternative is to wait 15+(realistically 20+) years for a 6gen plane from Europe. And with the alliance dying, who knows how much longer it will take now

Rafale and Gripen are more expensive and in many ways, less good. There is a reason why noone is buying them, or even if they did, they still want to buy more F-35.

[-] RaskolnikovsAxe@lemmy.ca 5 points 11 hours ago

F35 is far more expensive to operate, so you end up paying more over the lifetime if you actually use it.

Of course the other aircraft don't have a bunch of fancy features of the F35, but maybe we don't need them, particularly in light of the US hostility and unpredictability. And the benefit of building our own is a factor as well.

As I undertand it, the F35 has only about 55% readiness and suffers SW problems as well.

The US is not the only game in town, and we need to be clear about that.

[-] NIB@lemmy.world 2 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

It is a little princessy(what stealth aircraft isnt) but it doesnt cost that much to run. It only requires specialized facilities.

F-35 readiness is on par with other comparable planes and will only get better (superior to other fighters) the more infrastructure is built. You would be shocked if you saw the readiness levels of other planes but that doesnt sell.

It is important to note that much of the bad reputation of the f-35 is because

  1. Outdated data from early development of the plane. The F-16(or any plane), the (currently) cheap, reliable and available workhorse had an even worse start.
  2. Because there is free press in the West, you hear about everything that goes wrong. This is not the case for planes from authoritarian countries.
  3. A lot of the misinformation comes and/or is amplified literally from enemy state propaganda.
  4. A lot of the issues of the F-35 are about the vertical takeoff variant(F-35B). Or about a new updated version(block) of the F-35 that is still in testing.
  5. "F-35 bad" is(though less so nowadays) an internet meme. I am still waiting for the internet to explain how this terrible fighter can do 20 to 1 kill ratio vs non stealth planes in exercises.

Ask yourself why is the F-35 the best selling fighter. Why is noone buying F-15, F-18 or F-16. Those planes still sell but on much more limited quantities and mostly because F-35 production cant catch up with demand(or because not all american allies are allowed to buy the F-35).

Now obviously if America is hostile to Europe, shit is gonna get really weird. While the Rafale and Gripen are capable planes, they cannot replace the F-35.

Look what is happening in Ukraine. The air space is extremely hostile to non stealth planes. This is the kind of environment that the F-35 can fight in, though ideally you want B2 to bomb most antiair defenses. Non stealth aircraft can fight too but it is infinitely risker and with significantly reduced capabilities.

The F-35 is the start of a new doctrine(for non american airforces), not just a plane.

[-] RaskolnikovsAxe@lemmy.ca 2 points 7 hours ago

The critical tradeoff is not F35 or a worse plane. The critical tradeoff is American or not.

[-] Laser@feddit.org 9 points 15 hours ago

Why do you think the entirety of Europe has ordered so many F-35.

The reason for Germany is that other aircraft, by choice, have not been certified for use with US nuclear weapons.

[-] NIB@lemmy.world 6 points 12 hours ago* (last edited 12 hours ago)

Nuke capability is irrelevant for most countries(rafale has a nuke capable variant, though only for French nukes). Take a look at its operators

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lockheed_Martin_F-35_Lightning_II_operators

Everyone who can get it(allied to the US), has already ordered it or will soon. The only exceptions are Sweden and France, who wanted to maintain some degree of strategic independence and not lose their jet fighter building capability. And Spain, though Spain was also kinda thinking of getting F-35 too(before Trump).

Canada was like Sweden and France, they could manufacture capable planes. But this is immensely expensive. Thats why Canada(and most countries) stopped doing it. This is why the F-35 is cheap, economies of scale, and why countries are willing to wait 5+ years to get it(while rafale and Gripen are basically readily available).

Europe wanted to coast through 5gen planes by using the F-35 while skipping ahead and developing, 2 completely different apparently, 6gen planes by 2040ish.

[-] Scott_of_the_Arctic@lemmy.world 2 points 11 hours ago

The gripen is more agile than the f35 and capable of austere landings. Arguably more important traits than the ability to carry American nukes.

[-] NIB@lemmy.world 2 points 9 hours ago

Being agile is kinda irrelevant if one can detect, lock and launch missiles tens of kilometers before the other plane can even detect it. Real life is not Top Gun. This is why everyone is buying the F-35.

There is a reason why China is spending billions designing and making stealth fighters, bombers and drones.

Agility isnt useless but it is highly overrated mostly by Russia, because they cant afford to produce(in relevant quantities) a stealth plane.

[-] Zer0_F0x@lemmy.world 1 points 5 hours ago

Russia has a different approach to the problem: Very aggressive jamming. Sure, you can see them before they can see you, but those missiles are gonna be much less effective at tracking and destroying targets.

Stealth is being as quiet as possible, Russian jets are so damn "loud" that you don't know which target is the real one.

Once within range for a more traditional dogfight it's basically a coin toss, mostly down to the pilots and the reliability of the plane's hardware.

[-] Zer0_F0x@lemmy.world 138 points 1 day ago

The US can remotely disable them whenever they damn well please anyway, and can not be trusted not to.

Everyone should be canceling their orders immediately, and disable the remote access capabilities to the ones they have.

[-] wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 79 points 1 day ago

Nobody should have ever purchased military equipment with that feature.

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[-] hddsx@lemmy.ca 56 points 1 day ago

American here. Who cares if it provokes Trump? Actions have consequences. Canada helped out a lot during 911. What did we do? Prove to be an unreliable partner

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 36 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

100% TODAY! Do not pay a fucking dime of any amount owing for these. (good job on Globe and Mail for a change)

FYI, the Israeli version of F35 does not have this "US permission for every flight required"

F35 is a POS plane, with low uptime, in addition to "broken ownership". Even US military does not get manuals on how to repair/maintain them and must hire Lockheed consultants to do the job. The whole program was a boondoggle to pay Lockheed the most money possible instead of getting good military equipment, and any corrupt POS that was involved in approving this purchase for Canada should be jailed for treason.

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this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
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