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[-] rational_lib@lemmy.world 15 points 8 hours ago

Teddy Roosevelt never said "The only good indian is a dead indian." That quote is typically associated with Philip Sheridan.

A number of sources claim a similar quote (“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are...") alleged to be from an 1886 speech in New York, but this still goes against how he treated native americans generally and I can't find the original speech so I'm a bit suspicious of this as well.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 7 points 8 hours ago

My biggest complaint about Lincoln was the people he didn't hang.

[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 8 points 6 hours ago

Kinda like how the only thing John Brown did wrong on May 24th, 1856 was stop at 5

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 8 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 7 hours ago)

Carter was a pretty good person, at least post-Presidency, can't really speak on how he was in the White House though.

Reagan, otoh, was irredeemable all the way through, given while he was in the White House, that guy effectively destroyed the middle class, created the current disaster that is unaffordable post-secondary education, and created the current credit score system among other atrocities, not to mention that whole Contra business.

Yes, really, if it weren't for Reagan, there wouldn't be a massive and progressively-widening gap between the bottom and top of society, it would still be possible to get affordably educated, and people wouldn't be getting completely screwed by bad credit.

For a perfect foil of everything the US has stood for for at least the last four decades, look at most of the EU having universal healthcare, having an actually regulated education sector where for-profit grift schools like University of Phoenix or even the late ITT Tech or EDMC and its subsidiaries, wouldn't have ever been allowed to take root to begin with.

[-] rokae@lemmy.ml 3 points 7 hours ago* (last edited 2 hours ago)

For Carter the worst thing I know is that a lot of the free iran Iranian people really hate Carter for his actions in the Whitehouse and blame him for the current oppressive Iranian regime. I don't really think that was something malicious on his part, just a policy mistake.

[-] inb4_FoundTheVegan@lemmy.world 5 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

They aren't wrong! Carter may have been the best president post office, but he is also the American most responsible for the religious dictatorship that took over Iran and much of the middile east.

I'm a leftist, but after finishing "Reading Lolita In Tehran" and watching the PBS documentary "Taken Hostage" I understood completely how Reagan defeated him in a crushing landslide. The outpouring of grief after Carters death was difficult to stomach understanding the damage he had done. Yes the man built houses and gave generously late in life, but that's because he knew he had a lot to make up for it. The man destabilized several nations, including his own, with entirely foreseeable negligence.

[-] RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

Everything you mention for Reagan was passed by a democrat controlled Congress. Both parties killed the middle class

[-] RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 6 points 8 hours ago

There's almost no national leader that is going to be a “good person”.

[-] starman2112@sh.itjust.works 4 points 6 hours ago

This is lemmy.ml, I'm sure you can name a few that they would agree with. Stalin, Putin, Pol Pot, Mao...

[-] alkbch@lemmy.ml 2 points 6 hours ago
[-] shasta@lemm.ee 2 points 6 hours ago
[-] unfnknblvbl@beehaw.org 2 points 4 hours ago

"he's history's greatest monster!"

[-] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 29 points 13 hours ago

303 natives were convicted and sentenced to death following the Dakota War of 1862. Lincoln actually commuted the sentences of 264 of those natives, allowing the convictions to stand only for those he believed personally engaged in the murder of innocent women and children.

Therefore, the last one is deliberately and intentionally misleading.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 8 hours ago* (last edited 8 hours ago)

The Dakota War came out of a strategic starvation campaign imposed by the Union Army over Sioux Territory. The original tribes had been forced off the productive soil around the Minnesota River and displaced into barren wasteland. Subsequent crop failure and long winter made trading for foodstuffs from their home territories the only means of survival. And the settlers took maximum advantage, deliberately scamming and price gouging the Sioux for the remains of their family wealth. This, after a series of treaties had been casually violated from administration to administration.

The war was quite literally a fight for survival by the Sioux. Lincoln's largess in hanging only the young men directly involved in the raid did nothing to prevent the Sioux population from continuing its rapid decline, as the surviving elders were left to starve to death in the wilderness and the children were forced into Christian schools notorious for brutalizing and killing the kidnapped youths.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 11 points 13 hours ago

He didn't kill ALL the innocent, whose land he stole and whose relatives he murdered. Only those that dated fight back.

Yeah, sounds like Trump.

[-] Fredthefishlord 9 points 12 hours ago

Bro he literally freed the slaves.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 4 points 8 hours ago

They still have slaves. They are just in prison. That's my point.

[-] aeternum 2 points 4 hours ago

the constitution even condones it. Fucked. Prisoners get paid like 70c an hour or some shit.

[-] Fredthefishlord 1 points 4 hours ago

That's still far from as bad.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 hours ago

Oh okay. I didn't realize "a little" slavery is okay. As a treat if your white I guess.

[-] MJKee9@lemmy.world 5 points 11 hours ago

Instead of actually working towards something better, let's just spend our time arguing over things we can't change. /S

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[-] RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 2 points 8 hours ago

He didn’t steal any land. The battles fought between Natives and non-native populations were rarely a fight that had “good” vs “evil” sides.

They executed those that wantonly murdered innocent people. It tirns out murdering people for their food, goods, and horses is something the government did not want to encourage.

[-] Fidel_Cashflow@lemmy.ml 2 points 38 minutes ago

It tirns out murdering people for their food, goods, and horses is something the government did not want to encourage

unless you're a settler, then it's called "manifest destiny"

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 2 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

No, they were, very much. Europeans were invaders, taking land that didn't belong to them by force. The government explicitly encouraged murder and turned a blind eye to any abuses. If you don't want people to defend their land and avenge the love domes you murder, maybe don't invade and ethnically cleanse the are to begin with?

Do you also think Russia v. Ukraine or Israel's genocide don't have "evil" vs "good" sides?

Because if you're invading and murdering innocent people, its a clear cut for most people.

[-] LeninOnAPrayer@lemm.ee 8 points 11 hours ago* (last edited 11 hours ago)

I hate the "it was a different time" excuse for these awful human beings. It falls apart if you do any reading from the time. Plenty of people wrote about how shit these people were AT THE TIME. Our morals haven't expanded somehow. Our systems of control have changed to be more sustainable. The ruling class learned that slavery was not sustainable. That's it.

Also, this doesn't give an excuse for the leaders of today. The slave owners of the past are not "less caring" than the current ruling class is. The current ruling class has just better distanced themselves from direct acts of violence while expanding their ability to perform mass violence. Slavery has evolved into mass incarceration for example. We've just normalized our violence into different systems and outsourced a lot of it to the global south.

If you're a Billionaire today you are the equivalent of a slave owner of the past with significantly more violence and control than a slave owner could ever dream of.

[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 1 points 7 hours ago

Also, don't ignore shipping jobs overseas to where labor might as well be slavery if it technically isn't.

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 3 points 9 hours ago

Worse now, with modern tech they kill a lot more people

[-] captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 6 points 11 hours ago

You want to find me a head of state that wasn't or isn't?

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this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
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