644
submitted 1 day ago by Confidant6198@lemmy.ml to c/memes@lemmy.ml
top 50 comments
sorted by: hot top controversial new old
[-] rational_lib@lemmy.world 1 points 11 minutes ago

Teddy Roosevelt never said "The only good indian is a dead indian." That quote is typically associated with Philip Sheridan.

A number of sources claim a similar quote (“I don’t go so far as to think that the only good Indians are the dead Indians, but I believe nine out of every 10 are...") alleged to be from an 1886 speech in New York, but this still goes against how he treated native americans generally and I can't find the original speech so I'm a bit suspicious of this as well.

[-] RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 2 points 51 minutes ago

There's almost no national leader that is going to be a “good person”.

[-] DFX4509B_2@lemmy.org 3 points 1 hour ago* (last edited 1 hour ago)

Carter was a pretty good person, at least post-Presidency, can't really speak on how he was in the White House though.

Reagan, otoh, was irredeemable all the way through, given while he was in the White House, that guy effectively destroyed the middle class, created the current disaster that is unaffordable post-secondary education, and created the current credit score system among other atrocities, not to mention that whole Contra business.

[-] RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 1 points 50 minutes ago* (last edited 50 minutes ago)

Everything you mention for Reagan was passed by a democrat controlled Congress. Both parties killed the middle class

[-] Bloomcole@lemmy.world 3 points 1 hour ago

Worse now, with modern tech they kill a lot more people

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 58 minutes ago

My biggest complaint about Lincoln was the people he didn't hang.

[-] LeninOnAPrayer@lemm.ee 7 points 3 hours ago* (last edited 3 hours ago)

I hate the "it was a different time" excuse for these awful human beings. It falls apart if you do any reading from the time. Plenty of people wrote about how shit these people were AT THE TIME. Our morals haven't expanded somehow. Our systems of control have changed to be more sustainable. The ruling class learned that slavery was not sustainable. That's it.

Also, this doesn't give an excuse for the leaders of today. The slave owners of the past are not "less caring" than the current ruling class is. The current ruling class has just better distanced themselves from direct acts of violence while expanding their ability to perform mass violence. Slavery has evolved into mass incarceration for example. We've just normalized our violence into different systems and outsourced a lot of it to the global south.

If you're a Billionaire today you are the equivalent of a slave owner of the past with significantly more violence and control than a slave owner could ever dream of.

[-] BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world 22 points 5 hours ago

303 natives were convicted and sentenced to death following the Dakota War of 1862. Lincoln actually commuted the sentences of 264 of those natives, allowing the convictions to stand only for those he believed personally engaged in the murder of innocent women and children.

Therefore, the last one is deliberately and intentionally misleading.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 points 42 minutes ago* (last edited 42 minutes ago)

The Dakota War came out of a strategic starvation campaign imposed by the Union Army over Sioux Territory. The original tribes had been forced off the productive soil around the Minnesota River and displaced into barren wasteland. Subsequent crop failure and long winter made trading for foodstuffs from their home territories the only means of survival. And the settlers took maximum advantage, deliberately scamming and price gouging the Sioux for the remains of their family wealth. This, after a series of treaties had been casually violated from administration to administration.

The war was quite literally a fight for survival by the Sioux. Lincoln's largess in hanging only the young men directly involved in the raid did nothing to prevent the Sioux population from continuing its rapid decline, as the surviving elders were left to starve to death in the wilderness and the children were forced into Christian schools notorious for brutalizing and killing the kidnapped youths.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 7 points 5 hours ago

He didn't kill ALL the innocent, whose land he stole and whose relatives he murdered. Only those that dated fight back.

Yeah, sounds like Trump.

[-] RowRowRowYourBot@sh.itjust.works 2 points 46 minutes ago

He didn’t steal any land. The battles fought between Natives and non-native populations were rarely a fight that had “good” vs “evil” sides.

They executed those that wantonly murdered innocent people. It tirns out murdering people for their food, goods, and horses is something the government did not want to encourage.

[-] Fredthefishlord 8 points 4 hours ago

Bro he literally freed the slaves.

[-] Randomgal@lemmy.ca 2 points 1 hour ago

They still have slaves. They are just in prison. That's my point.

[-] MJKee9@lemmy.world 4 points 3 hours ago

Instead of actually working towards something better, let's just spend our time arguing over things we can't change. /S

[-] eldavi@lemmy.ml 2 points 3 hours ago

and hitler was a pretty good painter ...

[-] Fredthefishlord 4 points 2 hours ago

I'm sorry, did you just compare painting TO ENDING SLAVERY*

*some exclusions apply

[-] fantasyocean@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 3 hours ago

That's objectively false. His line work was shit and this meme is inaccurate.

You want to find me a head of state that wasn't or isn't?

[-] MJKee9@lemmy.world 3 points 3 hours ago

Perfection is the enemy of good.

[-] doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works 4 points 2 hours ago

Perhaps, and I didn't get a philosophy degree so take this with a grain of salt, but slavery and child rape seem to be even greater enemies of good.

[-] MJKee9@lemmy.world 2 points 1 hour ago

Ok, historically some political leaders felt that raping all brides before their wedding night was a great honor bestowed upon the family. Egyptian royalty had slaves, family members and pets murdered or buried alive with them when they died.

Human history is full of it's leaders doing shitty and horrendous things.. We can either sit here and microanalyze whatever country or set of leaders we want to single out or just recognize that historically everybody in power was a piece of shit, and look for ways to do better and make our leaders do better.

Does anyone here think that the United States and the world is better off with Donald Trump in power as opposed to Kamala Harris? If your answer to that question is " but Kamala supported Israel too hard".... Then my original comment about perfection and goodness is for you.

[-] doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works 2 points 1 hour ago

Lol, omfg, Lemmy is nuts sometimes.

No, I dont think we are better off with the known child rapist Donald Trump. I actually also think it's quite unlikely that Kamala has raped children or owned slaves.

But I do stand by my claim that child rape and slavery are worse enemies of good than "perfection". And if your response to that is "child rape is still a relative concept", then I'm sorry to say you can piss up a rope.

I voted for harm reduction like a sensible person, now can I please be offended over children getting raped or do I need to pass another purity test?

[-] MJKee9@lemmy.world 2 points 40 minutes ago

Perfection is the enemy of the good. I don't know why you are obsessed with child rape.....

[-] doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works 1 points 29 minutes ago* (last edited 27 minutes ago)

Well, it was literally mentioned in the post. Unlike... Kamala and Israel.

And you responded to my comment regarding it with random facts trying to soften how terrible it is, historically speaking.

So if we are talking obsessive behavior... Not sure it's mine that qualifies.

And in what way are America's presidents unique in these atrocities among world leaders of their era? Other than "America Bad" is trendy right now?

[-] doomcanoe@sh.itjust.works 1 points 1 hour ago

Don't recall saying that child rape or slavery are unique to anyone, just that they are a worse affront to "good" than "perfection". I'm against them in all their manifestations. Don't really care who specifically tbh.

But I'd also go so far as to say that just because "America bad" is trendy, doesn't mean these child raping slavers are being unfairly targeted. Cuz you know, they did have slaves and diddled kids.

[-] HawlSera@lemm.ee 2 points 2 hours ago
[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 points 55 minutes ago

The Republican Party was predicated on continuous western expansion. It was the successor to the Free Soil Party in the west and what was left of the Whigs in the East.

That necessarily meant seizing more land from American Natives and distributing it to Settlers. Much of the Union Army, before and after the Civil War, was focused on decimating the Native population and securing new tracks of free land for settlers. Lincoln inherited that mandate when he took office and pursued it as zealously as any Republican before or since.

load more comments
view more: next ›
this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
644 points (100.0% liked)

Memes

47519 readers
1525 users here now

Rules:

  1. Be civil and nice.
  2. Try not to excessively repost, as a rule of thumb, wait at least 2 months to do it if you have to.

founded 5 years ago
MODERATORS