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Signal is the No. 1 downloaded app in the Netherlands. But why? (techcrunch.com)
submitted 1 day ago by Sunshine@lemmy.ca to c/privacy@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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[-] Nanook@lemm.ee 12 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

Why? Because the Dutch national broadcasters keep plugging it as an alternative to Whatsapp.

Aside... Two apps keep getting mentioned as alternatives, Signal and Element/Matrix, but in MHRO both are not viable as replacements.

Signal: still a US app, CIA funded, provides their encryption backbone to Whatsapp, recommended by governments & FBI. Matrix/Element: Developed in Israel, with ties to IDF, preferred by NATO (NI2CE)

[-] Yxf@lemm.ee 1 points 6 hours ago

Signal is funded by the CIA now ? And I thought Element is in the UK?

[-] BuckenBerry@lemmy.world 2 points 5 hours ago* (last edited 5 hours ago)

Signal does seem to have some ties to the CIA

There seems to be a completely different Israeli company called matrix. I can't find any link between the two.

[-] Yxf@lemm.ee 1 points 1 hour ago

Maybe OP means that the Matrix protocol is created by an Israeli company.

[-] amelore@slrpnk.net 3 points 9 hours ago

I guess this means we're not switching to RCS then?

[-] tmxyz@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 19 hours ago

A lot of VPN servers in Netherlands may have something to do with it.....

[-] ray1992xd@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

I would have rather seen Element but hey, it's a step in the right direction.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 8 points 15 hours ago

Why? Matrix sucks as an instant messenger app, it's better as a Slack/Discord alternative.

[-] ray1992xd@lemmy.world 2 points 10 hours ago

Only because I'm not aware of other decentralised Signal alternatives. That's on me.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 5 points 10 hours ago

SimpleX is pretty rad.

[-] oftheair 2 points 7 hours ago

Not yet, it lacks a lot of the features Signal has and does not even have a proper ipad ui yet, nor proper profile syncing between devices.

If it ever has these it might be useable by the masses, until then it'll be only the interest of privacy nerds.

Though really the most important thing is its lack of audits and a transparency report like Signal has. How can we be sure that its encryption/other security is up to standards or they don't hand over anything to cops/courts without these two things? These are what most messengers fail at, especially open source decentralised ones to be fair.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, it's a cool toy, but when I was picking a messenger to sell my SO on, Simplex failed my basic requirements:

  • works on phone, desktop and laptop (messages arrive everywhere reliably)

Signal passed, so we went with that.

Simplex is still rad though, and I want to try building something on top of the protocol. I'm working on a P2P Reddit/Lemmy, and Simplex could be rad for DMs or something.

[-] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 1 points 6 hours ago

I didn't personally have problems with reliability (same as for XMPP, Matrix however has broken for me a few times). As for multiple devices - I just use two, with identical names and profile pictures, one on laptop and one on phone.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 points 6 hours ago

Yeah, Simplex is reliable. My point is that if I have a conversion with my SO on one device and want to continue on another, I can't really do that. So messages will come to one or another. When I tried it, they had a CLI tool to get that working, but that's not going to be acceptable for my SO.

So I went with Signal. It's easy for my SO to use and has strong privacy protections.

[-] fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 9 hours ago

Indeed, but funded by VC which makes me uneasy about its future.

[-] sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 4 points 9 hours ago

Huh, I missed that. From the announcement:

Also, funding the work to transition the protocols to non-profit governance model would not have been possible without the donations we received from the users.

Our pledge to our users is that SimpleX protocols are and will remain open, and in public domain, so anybody can build the future implementations of the clients and the servers. We are building SimpleX platform based on the same principles as email and web, but much more private and secure.

If they stay true to that, they're probably planning on building for-profit apps on top, while keeping the foundation free.

That sounds reasonable to me. Hopefully that happens.

[-] fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 7 hours ago

Fair. I'll still be on watch, since venture capitalists are scum. Hopefully donations will eventually become stable enough for a revenue stream for them.

[-] EngineerGaming@feddit.nl 2 points 6 hours ago

My concern is that they'd demand not just profit, but growth. But I wonder if they'd be able to go on by charging for commercial use - hosting servers, tech support, etc

[-] P4ulin_Kbana@lemmy.eco.br 5 points 15 hours ago

Isn't Element based of Matrix? From what I've read, Matrix is a bit mid (not exactly mid, but I can't think of any other word).

[-] 0xD@infosec.pub 2 points 9 hours ago* (last edited 9 hours ago)

It works as it's supposed to, though the handling of keys (strictly necessary for self-determined end-to-end encrypted chats) can be hard and annoying for people who have no experience. But once you get the hang of device confirmation you can use it seamlessly across multiple devices.

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[-] J4g2F@lemmy.ml 35 points 1 day ago

My dad just said in the WhatsApp group, why not move to signal. I tried moving friends and family before, but now that there has been anti meta media reports in some news sources. But especially reports on signal in almost every major newspaper and news source.

It seems not only a push because of privacy, but even more a anti big tech(especially us tech) and buy/use eu stuff push.

I don't mind the push I'm just curious if people stay on signal. Previous time there was a push to signal (during whatsapp technical difficulties and privacy push) people quickly want back to whatsapp.

Now my volunteer work, 1 friend and a family chat already moved to signal. The only thing I did was some explaining that you can just send images and so on. (That it's not something scary)

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[-] NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk 5 points 23 hours ago

I use Telegram, like betamax have I backed the wrong horse?

[-] Marty_Man_X@lemmy.world 8 points 10 hours ago

All kidding aside from the other comments, Telegram is not secure or private. It's not E2EE by default and getting it enabled is per-chat and convoluted. Frankly, I wouldn't even trust it with cat pics I send to the bros let alone private messages... not to be fear mongering but do yourself a favor and get off Telegram.

Signal, despite some criticism that it's "Not private enough etc.", strikes a balance between usability, privacy and security. It's also miles better than Telegram on all fronts.

A big issue we have in the privacy community is that it's easy to have an "all or nothing mindset". Even small steps in the right direction can be hugely beneficial. So, Signal is great. Use Signal.

[-] aramova@infosec.pub 6 points 18 hours ago

I'm sure going all in on a Russian company is just fine. Their Wikipedia entry has nothing at all to indicate any shady behavior.

/s

[-] NotJohnSmith@feddit.uk 1 points 8 hours ago

Oops, I didn't realise. I'd not fully adopted so will pivot. Ta

[-] rumschlumpel@feddit.org 61 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Let's hope they'll be able to continue to use it. It (and all other messengers with proper E2EE) is already on track to be outlawed in Sweden and France, and the new government in Germany will be pro mass-surveillance, too.

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this post was submitted on 05 Mar 2025
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