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submitted 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago) by verstra@programming.dev to c/programming@programming.dev

When I was in high school I found Sublime Text and learned "multiple cursors". Since then, I've transitioned to vscode, mainly because I need LSP (without too much configuration work) for my work.

I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor. I've been looking at helix, as the 4th generation of the vi line of editors. Is anyone using it? Is it any good for the main code editor?

The problem that I have is that learning new editing keybindings would probably take me a month of time, before I get to the same amount of productivity (if I ever get here at all). So I'm looking for advice of people who have already done that before.

My code editing does involve a lot of "ctrl-arrow" to move around words, "ctrl-shift-arrow" to select words, "home/end" to move to beginning/end of the line, "ctrl-d" for "new cursor at next occurrence", "shift-alt-down" for "new cursor in the line below", "ctrl-shift-f" for "format file" and a few more to move around using LSP-provided "declaration"/"usages".

I would have to unlearn all of that.

Also, I do use "ctrl-arrow" to edit this post. Have you changed keybindings in firefox too?

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[-] mrkite@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

I switched to helix last year after over twenty years of vim. I really like helix, but it did take some getting used to. Using multiple cursors instead of repeated commands etc

[-] spacemanspiffy@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Neovim genuinely makes me happy. I love it to bits.

I hate to be that guy but (neo)vim has served me well for too long. I don't even use any crazy maps or plugins; it's just comfy.

[-] zaphodb2002@sh.itjust.works 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

I started with neovim because I hate my laptop's mousepad, and that's often pushed as a benefit of modal editors, not needing the mouse. After I used it for a while I found that not only could you do stuff easily that would be difficult in, say vs code, but it was also pretty fun. It's honestly a bit of a power trip sometimes, makes me feel like a 90s tv hacker. Also plugins. So many neat plugins.

[-] mugdad1@lemm.ee 1 points 2 days ago

i really wonder why mousepads sucks

[-] WhosMansIsThis@lemmy.sdf.org 33 points 3 days ago

Do you have a minute to talk about my lord and savior VIM? Wanna see my dot files?

[-] morrowind@lemmy.ml 39 points 3 days ago

I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster and I would like to switch to a more performant editor.

Honestly I've yet to hear a good argument for this. It feels like such a major investment to switch to vi-like editors, I need a pretty good argument before considering it

Also a good argument for "why does it matter"? Speed of editing is rarely a bottleneck when editing code. If it is, you might want to consider why your code is so verbose and repetitive to make it so

[-] mrkite@programming.dev 1 points 1 day ago

Speed of editing is rarely a bottleneck when editing code

It's not just that though, its moving around your code. Being able to jump between matching brackets, follow references etc. it's just quicker and easier with a modal editor.

[-] pooberbee@lemmy.ml 17 points 3 days ago

Modal editing for just raw text input would actually be slower, because you also enter and leave Insert Mode. I find it's very fast and powerful for navigating around the text, which you probably do a lot more than actually editing it. And when it does come to editing, there are a lot of higher-level tools (at least in Vim) for accomplishing things more quickly, like the 's' command and 'q' macros.

I think getting into a mental "flow" state is really valuable, and muscle memory is important for being able to stay there. If your muscle memory is to navigate around using the mouse, that's great, but Vim feels faster to me.

[-] AdamBomb@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 3 days ago

In my personal experience, it’s a little faster but not a huge speed difference. However, it’s much more pleasant and ergonomic. I enjoy the act of modal editing much more than modeless.

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[-] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 22 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Don't Speculate

Go to Twitch/YouTube. Watch a senior Vim/Jetbrains/Emacs/VS Code/Helix dev churn out code for a hackathon/advent-of-code, and see what you are (or are not!) missing out on.

If you have "how the hell did they just do that" moments, figure out what that feature is, and STEAL IT. If its too hard to steal, then maybe you are being limited by your editor. Base your "fear of missing out" on what you see rather than random people tossing their opinions around. Only you can answer "how much is that feature worth to me and my workflows?"

  • If you're going to try modal editors, sooner is exponentially better. Probably start with Vim bindings for VS Code.
  • If you're not going to go modal, then make absolutely sure you don't bottom out. To be frank, Ctrl+D is the tip of the iceberg. Half the benefit of modal editors is, mastery is mandatory; they chase you around with a 10k volt taser until you've got 100 instinctual shortcuts. Hardly anyone mentions this but Go beyond/outside your editor: At the OS level, use spacebar as a modifier key, where holding spacebar converts your WASD into arrow keys. Then disable your normal arrow keys. Something like that will get you vim-like benefits, but in every app, and with a learning bump instead of a learning mountain. For VS Code, get cursor jumper extensions like Mario (block jumper), get cursor-alignment extensions, write boatloads of custom code snippets, get a macro record+replay extension, make a jump-to-next quote, jump to next bracket, install sequential number generator extension, a case change (camel case, snake case, etc) extension, sort lines, case-preserving rename. If you can avoid bottoming out, and keep learning, you'll likely never feel that you are missing out on whatever modal editor people are swearing by.
[-] 0101100101@programming.dev 6 points 3 days ago

I get this, but an IDE should be invisible and grow as you do and not require you to learn lots of janky things before it becomes a little bit useful for you.

Need the basics, great, here they are. Don't understand some advanced feature? Well the IDE has it here, but it isn't in your way, mess with it as and when you want. It'll still be there.

I don't think one IDE does everything for different languages and its ok to swap editors depending on your workflow, your project and your ever-changing skillset.

[-] jeffhykin@lemm.ee 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I get this, but

Why not say "I get this, and ..." ?

I don't think the idea of a learn-as-you-go editor goes against the idea of watching skilled devs with their favorite tool

[-] lonesomeCat@lemmy.ml 3 points 2 days ago

Helix because it's easy to setup and hassle free, and it runs well on my 2009 ASUS Eee

[-] PokerChips@programming.dev 13 points 3 days ago

NeoVim plus tmux.

Great multi dimensional way of operating. You have access to the terminal and your ide.

It's beautiful

[-] FrostyPolicy@suppo.fi 30 points 3 days ago

I use Jetbrains' products for all my coding needs.

[-] micro@programming.dev 6 points 2 days ago

Same. Jetbrains makes the best IDEs hands down IMO and I say this after 20 years of coding and using numerous IDEs. I also use vscode as a backup but as more of a glorified text editor.

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[-] kekmacska@lemmy.zip 3 points 2 days ago

vscodium. Easy to use for beginners (i'm a beginner too), fully open-source, all microsoft tracking binaries removed. Aviable for Windows, Linux, macOS, darwin, propably bsd, or even as a webview, and supports a lot of architectures. Great for intrepeted languages, but supports compiled ones too

[-] AnarchistArtificer@slrpnk.net 13 points 3 days ago

The main reason I like vi/vim is that if you're having to use multiple different computers (such as if one is a sysadmin, or in my case, does scientific computing), because if you're running on Linux, you can be confident that vi/vim will be on it.

For personal use, I've been using emacs, but I can't recommend that without feeling like I'm suggesting you try some heroin. I enjoy emacs because of it's complexity and how much power it gives me to modify it. It's very easy to fall into feature creep and over complexity though. That's why I can't recommend it — it's good for me because I am a chronic tinkerer, and having something to fuck around with is an outlet for that.

I would recommend learning the basics of vim though. As you highlight, getting back to your current level of productivity would take a while, even if you loved vim and committed to it wholeheartedly. It is possible to try it out with little commitment though, for the perspective. If you're on a machine that has vim installed already, try the vimtutor command, which will start the ~30 min long inbuilt tutorial for vim. I liked it for giving me perspective on what on earth vim even was.

I know you don't use it anymore, but I just want to fistbump you re: sublime text. I really loved that as a basic text editor that was, for me, just a slightly nicer notepad.

[-] MXX53@programming.dev 6 points 2 days ago

I use emacs when on my personal machines. VS Code at work.

The fastest tool is the one you are best at using. I find that my tool doesn't make me fast, my ability to solve issues makes me fast. I very rarely learn a new tool unless it accomplishes something for me my other tools do not.

For example, at work I use windows and regularly ssh to servers. My entire job is spent ssh'd into other servers. Emacs terminal emulator is spotty at best when using ssh on windows. There are ways to make it work, but some modifications get flagged by our SEIMs. So in that case I use vs code, and the ssh remote connection options and split terminal interface.

At home I use emacs. I have all Linux machines so my terminal plays nicely. I also am working on reducing my RSI from years of tech work. The less mousing I have to do, the better. Emacs allows me to keep my hands on my keyboard.

[-] uthredii@programming.dev 25 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I use Helix

TLDR: Yes I think helix is worth trying out. It has some missing features but it is an amazing piece of software.

Yes I use helix daily. It is very fun to use and you can do many things faster. It is particularly good when navigating a (large) codebase you know fairly well. You are able to jump around and find/edit relevant code very quickly.

Compared to vs code:

  • it is much faster and more minimal
  • It might be harder to get things up and running than in vs code, e.g. to get auto-completion working in helix you need to have the LSP for that language installed. It can be a bit confusing if you have never done it before but it is easy once you have done it a few times.

Compared to neovim I think it is:

  • easier to learn
  • slightly faster - especially with large files
  • you will have a much smaller/simpler configuration. AFAIK Helix has more features working out of the box than neovim (file picker, lsp support ect) and needs less configuration to get things to a workable state.

The downside of helix compared to both neovim and vscode is that it does not have plugin support yet so you will need to use other tools in combination with it to get an equivalent experience. Here are some tools that are commonly used with helix:

Helix really shines when:

  • performance matters - I have edited files with millions of lines and had no trouble on codebases where my colleagues IDE's become very slow.
  • You want to use multiple cursors at times
  • You want a simple or no configuration
  • It is taking too long to learn the vim keybindings - vim keybindings are more concise but less intuitive and harder to learn

I recommend you use the tutor (hx --tutor) for a few minutes each day to learn the keybidings.

[-] verstra@programming.dev 8 points 3 days ago

Thanks for the overview. I'll work with tutor and see how frustrated I get :D


Regarding language servers:

Recently, I got into this philosophy of "every project needs a declarative environment". It means that there is a committed file that should contain all tooling need to work with the project. Compilers, formatters, test runners and also: language servers.

This fights with vscode extensions which try to be clever and download their language server / bundle it into the extension itself. "No, rust-analyzer, I don't want your build because it does not work with xtensa target arch I'm using in this project".

So actually, this ties nicely with helix not providing the language servers itself, but allowing you to bring your own.

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[-] QuizzaciousOtter@lemm.ee 11 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I use Neovim. It feels like a second nature after using it for years. I love how effortless the interaction with the editor is after you have spent hundreds of hours learning it. I have no reasonable arguments to convince anyone to do that though. I just do it because I enjoy the hell out of it 🤷‍♂️

[-] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 18 points 3 days ago

vim with appropriate syntax highlighting, or kate

[-] troyunrau@lemmy.ca 6 points 3 days ago

kate

I use Kate -- part of the KDE project ecosystem (for anyone else wondering) -- on all platforms, including Windows. So worth it.

[-] mugdad1@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

vscodium and neovim extension

[-] Shanmugha@lemmy.world 15 points 3 days ago

I keep hearing about how modal editing is faster

Please, do yourself a favor and ignore that noise. It is more a question of like/dislike and training. Personal sidenote: I daily alternate between PhpStorm and Neovim. Can't say doing things in either is faster/slower to any significant degree (PhpStorm is mostly there for the things I have not yet configered properly in Neovim, like looking through git history)

and I would like to switch to a more performant editor

This should be looked at and tested objectively: is it working with big files that is the problem? Or navigating the code base? Or something else? Maybe it is better to tweak vscode instead?

[-] RustyShackleford@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Zed and Helix for the GNU/Linux side, and VSCodium for the Windows side.

[-] TheTimeKnife@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago

I'm still learning to code, but I tried out a bunch and I've liked using Vim, VScodium and Pycharm.

[-] UraniumBlazer@lemm.ee 14 points 3 days ago

Vscodium. Anything else (ESPECIALLY VIM, SO DON'T TELL ME TO USE VIM) makes my brain want to eject itself into the 37th dimension to look for Nirvana and the true purpose of life.

[-] xep@fedia.io 17 points 3 days ago

Hey have you tried using Vim? I like it better than Emacs

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[-] yogsototh@programming.dev 8 points 3 days ago

Fresh from university I found a job with terrible keyboards. After about 4 months I started to feel constant pain in my wrists. I then switched to vim.

And it solved my wrists issue. But also, I discovered a way to edit text that was so much optimized fat beyond my expectations.

I wrote this article for people that would like to familiarize with vi keybindings.

https://yannesposito.com/Scratch/en/blog/Learn-Vim-Progressively/

[-] breakcore@discuss.tchncs.de 13 points 3 days ago

Helix is absolutely wonderful.

Used to use Vim/Neovim, but the hassle of setting it up and maintaining huge configuration files was a pain (for me).

Also I never really got it working the way I wanted and never had LSP working for all the languages I needed.

Helix on the other hand. My config file is under 20 lines, LSP works super for all my needs. Well thought out keybindings (mostly) and overall a joy to use.

Nice features and fast.

Still a bunch of things missing, it is a rather young piece of software, but I have been using it as my only editor for the last 1 1/2 years.

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[-] inzen@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

My editors

  • Professionally I use Jetbrains stuff (intellij, pycharm, etc).
  • At home I use Neovim because I like to have lsp support, I'm too cheap to pay for IDE's and I dislike VSCode for personal reasons. For quick edits I use default text editor e.g. kate/gedit.

My opinions on learning new editors

  • If you need to go fast now, use what you know best.
  • If you have time to learn just try whatever looks cool. Learning a new editor/way to edit text will broaden your horizons even if you don't end up using it.
[-] mholiv@lemmy.world 8 points 3 days ago

+1 for Helix. Selection then action always made more sense to me than action then selection.

[-] prettybunnys@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 days ago

vscode + whatever connection plugin you need + vim plugin

[-] TypicalHog@lemm.ee 2 points 2 days ago

I use VSCodium atm.

[-] RandomVideos@programming.dev 5 points 2 days ago

I use the godot integrated code editor, but i am debating switching to writing the code in google slides and copying the text into notepad in a virtual machine

[-] Agility0971@lemmy.world 11 points 3 days ago

I use neovim but i think helix is honestly better ootb.

[-] wazoobi@lemm.ee 9 points 3 days ago

I took a look at Helix when I was trying to learn vim and found it very easy to get started with, but was concerned about missing out on learning more standard vim bindings and functionality.

I found LazyVim + NeoVim got me pretty much the same experience without diverging as much from vim. Mostly I appreciate having access to a cheatsheet for commands.

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[-] azolus@slrpnk.net 6 points 3 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)
cat << EOF > file.txt
# [[content here]]
EOF

On a more serious note: Neovim for quick file-edits, doom-emacs as my IDE.

Doom-emacs does most of the stuff you are already using out of the box, is highly configurable and it lets you use vim-keybindings. It's also free (as in freedom) software!

[-] brian@programming.dev 2 points 2 days ago

this, evil is the real 4th generation vi

[-] flamingos@feddit.uk 9 points 3 days ago* (last edited 3 days ago)

I use Emacs and love it. It's an amazingly frustrating (and just plain amazing) piece of software, but it's hard to move away from it because it's the only thing like it. Maybe if Lem every gets mature enough I might switch.

I probably wouldn't recommend it though as it doesn't sound like what you're looking for.

[-] fxomt@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 3 days ago

On windows i use vscodium, on linux neovim.

As others say i think helix is cool, but the limited customization is kind of meh for me. I love the keybinds for it though.

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this post was submitted on 09 Feb 2025
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