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we had a good run (lemmy.world)
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[-] ptz@dubvee.org 102 points 2 weeks ago
[-] iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works 56 points 2 weeks ago

Harris actually got more votes than Biden in most of the key swing states. Can we stop this narrative of blaming anyone other than the tens of millions that actually picked Trump?

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 67 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Nope. Because I do blame the third party / uncommitted crowd for sowing division, doubt, and getting in the way. We were in a burning building, and those groups were blocking the fire exits.

[-] in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 2 weeks ago

You're a sucker, blame anyone except the billionaires who have bought democrats and repubs alike to get us here. If you can look at the fact that we produce enough to feed 10 billion people yet people still starve, or that there is £36 TRILLION in offshore tax havens as of 2016 but can't afford basic needs for people, but it's people who voted against genocide is the problem?

[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 2 weeks ago

If everyone of them voted for Harris, she would have still lost. The only "voting bloc" if you can call it that matters was the non-voters, and you get them interested by offering policies that voters find good.

Harris wasn't doing that. She said "I won't pivot from Biden" and talked about having Republicans in her cabinet. Harris was showing off how she got the Cheney family on her side, the political family who helped orchestrate the war on terror.

If you're unsure, you see a Democrat trying to be a Republican, and you see a Republican. One is clearly better than the other in that Harris wasn't going to instantly install autocrats like Musk.

That was my default answer, "I dont like Harris in everything, but I hate Trump. She can be talked to and reasoned with. Trump only listens to ass-kissers and money. I value my tongue more than I have money."

But for people who are focused on just trying to survive paycheck the paycheck, they don't have time to see that. Especially since voting days aren't time off for most Americans. You have to work to put food on the table, or spend time waiting in line to vote.

I'm thankful I can get mail in ballots a month before the election. I can look at my local elections, my statewide referendums, and check if I agree and who's paid for the advertising. Most states don't have that "luxury".

I do blame them for not voting if they had an easy way of voting. Mail in, early voting on a weekend, requesting time off to vote. I don't blame them for seeing that one party is trying to act like the other party from 2004 that became the fascist party in 2016.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 42 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The stick was actually running a soft right democrat to combat a far right candidate, the gag is blaming voters.

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 38 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

The stick was not seeing (or even acknowledging the existence of) the bigger picture.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 29 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Well, the bigger picture in my comment is that the Democratic party will rip their nose off if it means not running a progressive candidate willing to stand firm in their progressive stances, and that choice between a soft right candidate and a far right candidate is like choosing between a piece of chocolate or the whole bar. What bigger picture are you referring to?

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 26 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

[Gestures vaguely at goddamned everything] for starters.

She might not give us all ponies and blowjobs, but literally none of this dystopian nightmare would be happening under Harris.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 21 points 2 weeks ago

Sure. But that's not going to change the fact that she fucking lost because she was a terrible candidate for Trump and ran a Republican campaign. The voters are not responsible when both parties coronate their candidate in back rooms.

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 20 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Yes the voters are responsible!

It's called making the most intelligent choice, seeing the bigger picture, and doing harm reduction. I am beyond sick of the blame shifting being done to justify people not taking this election seriously .

The threat of Trump 2.0 was apparent and not even remotely a secret. if people didn't see that or take that seriously, it is their fault.

[-] emeralddawn45@discuss.tchncs.de 12 points 2 weeks ago

Why is the democratic party not at fault for "not making the most intelligent choice". You act like harris was set in stone. And that her stance on israel had to be set in stone. Or any of the other terrible policy and campaign choices that were made by the dems. The threat of trump 2.0 was apparent and not even remotely a secret. If the democrats didnt see that or take it seriously its their fault.

[-] illumrial@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

The problem is, unless you're very wealthy, it's obvious the current system we're living under strips workers of their material needs. It's easy as a populist to say, "I'm going to smash this system" and get a bunch of people who desperately need a way out to vote for you.

Harris unfortunately, and this is systematic with the DNC, is tied to the material interests of the capital class. There was only scolding but no vision of a materially beneficial future for Americans.

No talks of universal healthcare, universal pre k or going after big business. Hell, she was going to continue to genocide Palestinians.

I voted for her, but we've been fucked by both parties since I've been born. I want, nay need a leftist candidate who will break the system for us but I haven't seen one yet.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Voters carry blame, but that does not make them responsible. The responsibility lies with the political parties.

[-] ptz@dubvee.org 17 points 2 weeks ago

Yes, the 2-party system sucks, but it is the system we have. No amount of whining or wishful thinking was going to change that.

There were two choices: Status Quo (but not fascism) and Speedrun to Fascism.

"Not Trump" was not a candidate. If voters couldn't suck it up and vote for the only viable non-fascism candidate, then it is their fault and they are responsible.

I'm done with this debate since you seem to want to blame everyone but the people who didn't do their part.

[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago

If the system relies on everyone doing everything perfectly, then the system is flawed. Take a moment to reflect on the fact that voters chose to reject the status quo. I'd personally prefer it too, but the fact is that people saw the option between status quo and something different, and leaped for something different. That says something about the deep, systemic flaws in the status quo, the neoliberal parties, and how they paved the way for fascists to take over the neoliberal conservative party.

I'm openly saying that voters have blame to carry. But remember that blame and responsibility are separate. The parties had an obligation to prevent fascism, and they failed. They are responsible.

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[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 11 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Ah yes, the "everything is just fine just look at this graph" picture

And before anyone says anything: I voted for Harris. Just like I voted for Biden and Clinton and Obama and Obama and Kerry and Gore. The only ones of those who actually got into office were the ones telling us things would change.

Don't be mad that they ran a shitty campaign to convince a populous with a sixth grade reading level and defunded civics classes to figure out how to vote.

[-] metaStatic@kbin.earth 7 points 2 weeks ago

not pictured (cliff they are still going to jump off)

[-] Voyajer@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago
[-] rockSlayer@lemmy.world 10 points 2 weeks ago

Got one what? I voted.

[-] butwhyishischinabook@lemmy.world 19 points 2 weeks ago

Oh my God shut the fuck up unless fewer people voted Dem in swing states... which they didn't. Stop refusing to address your addiction to moderation.

[-] 5714@lemmy.dbzer0.com 73 points 2 weeks ago

Points at SCOTUS. Electoral College. Winner-Takes-All underrepresentation. 100 years legal slavery, 100 years racial segregation. 150 years gendered voting rights.

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[-] maxalmonte14@lemmy.world 56 points 2 weeks ago

How cute, OP thinks the US has been a democracy for the last 250 years.

[-] ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 51 points 2 weeks ago

we had a good run

Did you, though?

[-] FilthyHookerSpit@lemmy.world 15 points 2 weeks ago

The rich guys did, it's even getting better for them.

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 46 points 2 weeks ago

"unelected"

he got up to stage and said he bought the fascist candidate. lots of people saw that and said "that's OK, I'll still vote red" and even more people saw that and said "that's OK, I'll still not vote". around 160 million people saw this and were OK with it. yeah he wasn't elected, but the "dictator on day one" was.

[-] Tja@programming.dev 12 points 2 weeks ago

This right here.

They had a website for two years with a detailed plan. Project 2025 was widely known an people either voted for it or stayed at home. The dildo of consequences, as they say...

[-] riodoro1@lemmy.world 45 points 2 weeks ago

democracy

Looks inside

oligarchy

[-] AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world 16 points 2 weeks ago

And completely broken and idiotic and easily manipulated voting system.

[-] in4apenny@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 2 weeks ago

It's almost as though the oligarchs could afford the best lawyers and judges to write up "democratic" laws that favor them, would certainly explain everything dems/repubs have been working together to do for 50+ years while boomers are all like "Nothing to see here, too busy focusing on myself."

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 35 points 2 weeks ago

"Democracy"

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 33 points 2 weeks ago

Democracy

Looks inside

Constitution written exclusively to protect monopoly business interests and prevent a monarchy

seems legit lol

[-] Fredthefishlord 9 points 2 weeks ago

Yeah I'm sure that giving rights to everyone (amendments are part of the Constitution!) was purely for business interests ...

[-] UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml 30 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Capitalism's natural and unavoidable end stage.

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[-] technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 28 points 2 weeks ago

People who believe in 250 years of democracy enable systemic racism, patriarchy, etc.

Libs, please grow up.

[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 2 weeks ago

Democracy is when you prohibit everybody but voting except rich white slave owners!

Reminder that our founding fathers broke off because of "taxation without representation" but then denied representation for most Americans.

Women? "No say." Black people? "Wait those are people?" Native Americans? "Sure they were here first but I have money." Immigrants? "Why would I support new comers to this land my family has been here for 30 years!"

We didn't even used to vote for our senators, they were voted in by the state legislator, which you could vote for if your state allowed your kind to vote, but most places only allowed for certain people to vote.

America pretends it was a democracy, when Musk and Trump just show it was all a show and it could be toppled over at any point. Most of the laws in place for offices of power were just codes of ethics with no punishment for violation. If you did break a law, the president has never really been checked, so just break more as they figure out what to do.

[-] Yerbouti@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

It was deeply flawed but it was a democracy nevertheless. It's now a full authoritarian regime and you'll get to realize what you've lost soon enough.

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Lol the democracy part didn't even start until 1965.

Even then, its more like Democracy Lite™.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 19 points 2 weeks ago

The average age of an empire is 250 years, now were going to find out what's going to replace it.

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[-] chemicalwonka@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

USA is a kakistocracy of the oligarchs

Change my mind

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[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 16 points 2 weeks ago

I'll be polite. That's not an accurate repository of those 250 years; the second part us alright.

[-] Mangoholic@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 week ago

A good run? 2 years of actually peace since the us existenz is your benchmark for a good run?

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this post was submitted on 08 Feb 2025
1065 points (100.0% liked)

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