Happy #GlobalSwitchDay : fediverse

[-] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 182 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Signal isn't federated ^[1][2][3.1]^; it's decentralized ^[1][2][3.2]^. Though, for all practical purposes, I would generally argue that it's centralized.

References

Signal-Server. signalapp. Github. Published: 2025-01-31T15:34:14.000Z. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:24Z. https://github.com/signalapp/Signal-Server.
- This is the source code for the server that Signal uses.
"Signal (software)". Wikipedia. Published: 2025-01-06T09:34Z. Accessed: 2025-02-1T09:30Z. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Signal_(software).
- ¶"Architecture". ¶"Servers".
  
  Signal relies on centralized servers that are maintained by Signal Messenger. In addition to routing Signal's messages, the servers also facilitate the discovery of contacts who are also registered Signal users and the automatic exchange of users' public keys. […]
"Reflections: The ecosystem is moving". moxie0. Signal Blog. Published: 2016-05-10. Accessed: 2025-02-01T09:40Z. https://signal.org/blog/the-ecosystem-is-moving/.
1. ¶5. to ¶"Stuck in time". ¶3-6
  
  One of the controversial things we did with Signal early on was to build it as an unfederated service. Nothing about any of the protocols we’ve developed requires centralization; it’s entirely possible to build a federated Signal Protocol-based messenger, but I no longer believe that it is possible to build a competitive federated messenger at all. […] [interoperable protocols] [have] taken us pretty far, but it’s undeniable that once you federate your protocol, it becomes very difficult to make changes. And right now, at the application level, things that stand still don’t fare very well in a world where the ecosystem is moving. […] Early on, I thought we’d federate Signal once its velocity had subsided. Now I realize that things will probably never slow down, and if anything the velocity of the entire landscape seems to be steadily increasing.
2. ¶"Stuck in time". "Federation and control". ¶6.
  
  An open source infrastructure for a centralized network now provides almost the same level of control as federated protocols, without giving up the ability to adapt. If a centralized provider with an open source infrastructure ever makes horrible changes, those that disagree have the software they need to run their own alternative instead. It may not be as beautiful as federation, but at this point it seems that it will have to do.

[-] Lazycog@sopuli.xyz 91 points 2 months ago

Yeah. I love Signal but it doesn't belong in that list. Dansup (creator of loops and pixelfed) is apparently working on "Sup" that will be a decentralized alternative to whatsapp.

[-] punkisundead@slrpnk.net 63 points 2 months ago

To me this person sounds like they have too many big projects at once. I wish them success tho

[-] Lazycog@sopuli.xyz 33 points 2 months ago

Yeah.. I'm bit afraid of "kbin Ernest Effect" (not sure what a proper term is) where personal issues pile up and the sole head developer just disappears.

Haven't followed dansup much but from what I understand he is much more open to pull requests and listening to the community, but time will tell. Right now I appreciate and love his effort, giving, and the impact on fediverse he is brining.

The kickstarter was a good idea.

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[-] ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net 16 points 2 months ago

XMPP is an established federated messaging app with encryption.

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[-] Evotech@lemmy.world 43 points 2 months ago

Don't let perfect be the enemy of good

[-] Kalcifer@sh.itjust.works 50 points 2 months ago

My comment wasn't protesting the use of Signal; it was rather clarifying the misinformation in OP's post — ie misinformation that Signal is a federated service.

[-] OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 26 points 2 months ago

Signal is hostile to third party clients like Molly.im as well

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[-] ZeroCool@slrpnk.net 116 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

For the avid readers out there, bookwyrm is a fantastic alternative to goodreads.

https://joinbookwyrm.com/

[-] FundMECFSResearch 46 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Yes it’s excellent! Also noting for those that aren’t aware: Goodreads is owned by Amazon.

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[-] Matombo@feddit.org 103 points 2 months ago

Signal is not Fediverse! Element/Matrix is!

[-] davidagain@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

Absolutely, signal isn't federated, but I don't want my messaging app to be federated. I want my social media to be federated. Lemmy is good because it's open. Signal is good because it's shut.

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[-] Undaunted@discuss.tchncs.de 96 points 2 months ago

Unfortunately, the switch from YouTube to PeerTube has not worked for me so far. I can't find a decent instance (not full of right-wing/conspiracy content) with interesting stuff that also allows me to make an account.

[-] FundMECFSResearch 57 points 2 months ago

Yes finding the right instance on peertube is a nightmare — and also the general lack of quality content, or subtitling, which makes it as good as useless for deaf people like me.

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[-] ekZepp@lemmy.world 69 points 2 months ago

Ah. I see...

Screenshot_20250201_132521_Photo Editor

[-] NickwithaC@lemmy.world 20 points 2 months ago

Don't worry, your successor isn't offering anything big. You'll still be around for many more days to come.

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[+] IDKWhatUsernametoPutHereLolol@lemmy.dbzer0.com 59 points 2 months ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

[deleted]

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 29 points 2 months ago

Hear me out.

Creators should be hosting peer tubes. And they should host exclusively their own content. Fans of their can subscribe to whatever systems they want to pay and support.

For creators, it's a backup for when YouTube the project inevitably fails. For fans as well. But it's also a backup of their content.

[-] Statick@programming.dev 19 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Tech-savvy content creators, sure...

Your average content creator that wants to make Minecraft videos? Unrealistic.

I hate the monopoly Youtube has, but all of the federated alternatives have a learning curve the general public isn't willing to deal with.

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[-] RandomVideos@programming.dev 16 points 2 months ago

A lot of youtubers make a living posting videos.

They dont have a good enough reason to risk going to a much smaller audience with no ads and no membership system

They also probably arent knowledgeable enough about computers to switch

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[-] csm10495@sh.itjust.works 55 points 2 months ago

How is signal considered part of the fediverse?

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[-] hmmm@sh.itjust.works 49 points 2 months ago

Unpopular Opinion Lemmy and PeerTube logo look ugly.

[-] Padit@feddit.org 40 points 2 months ago

Unpopular opinion: your opinion is not unpopular at all.

[-] blackn1ght@feddit.uk 20 points 2 months ago

I think it's just the colours for the peertube one. I like that it's three individual play icons to signify the federation aspect, but the colours are just dull.

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[-] potentiallynotfelix@lemmy.fish 45 points 2 months ago

Signal is centralized, loops is closed source and not accepting new users.

[-] Esmoreit@lemmings.world 19 points 2 months ago

Loops will be open sourced later they say.

Is Loops open source? It will be! We plan on open sourcing the platform after it reaches a stable and easy to maintain state.

[-] tempest@lemmy.ca 21 points 2 months ago

That really is not a satisfying answer. It is incredibly nebulous and even if it did have a nice definition I guarantee most software developers will tell you a lot of software rarely reaches that state.

I can see why they might want to avoid 1000 GitHub issues bike shedding things but they could open source the code and just not have open contribution

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[-] teri@discuss.tchncs.de 39 points 2 months ago

I support the cause in general but: Signal is not federated at all. It may seem like a decent alternative to WhatsApp but is it really? It still falls under the same US jurisdiction. Let's say the US gov starts agressively prosecuting dissidents and certain minorities (they already do): can and should we still use signal in this case? I don't think so. Sadly i can't name a much better alternative. Maybe matrix. But it has other issues.

[-] Bazoogle@lemmy.world 28 points 2 months ago

Signal is open source. They absolutely do always comply with US warrants. They have never provided any information to US law enforcement, because they can't access it. They literally have no way of accessing the information contained inside the texts. The most they could provide is metadata, but they currently aren't collecting that. I also think if they started, it would not work well for their user base. You can see all their requests for information, and the responses they gave, here: https://signal.org/bigbrother/

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[-] pineapple_pizza@lemmy.dexlit.xyz 37 points 2 months ago

A federated social fitness app(like Strava) would be cool

[-] DicJacobus@lemmy.world 36 points 2 months ago

instead of switching ive mostly just been ditching entirely. I need less time interacting with internet people.

literally the only thing on this list im still using is facebook messenger, for my work colleagues. and youtube. everything else ive migrated (reddit-lemmy), or abandoned and torched

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[-] chanteoma@lemmy.ml 36 points 2 months ago

Hi, I think too many people are focusing too much on the type of software included in this chart. I don't think the goal of the person that created the chart was to create the ultimate guide to move to the Fediverse or FOSS apps with all the options available for them. I believe it prioritizes simplicity, and it's clearly directed towards people unaware that these alternatives exist.

Most people I know don't even know what the Fediverse is, and I think this initiative is for them.

I know that debating which FOSS/Fedi apps are the best is a big matter of concern for people that are already aware of the problems some platform have. But focusing too much on this debate not only creates more division among supporters of FOSS/Fedi, but it is also drawing attention from the main point: Bringing more people to the Fediverse.

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[-] tisktisk@piefed.social 29 points 2 months ago

Loops.video isn't accepting new users atm. Even if it was, I got in on early signup and I have next to zero functionality out of it rn. Just informing the curious masses

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[-] RedSnt@feddit.dk 24 points 2 months ago

I was already on Mastodon by just having a Vivaldi (the chromium browser) account, and it's just lovely I've spent most of the day setting up lemmy, even though I joined feddit.dk 2 years ago, it's only just now I'm taking it seriously.
And, while not related to the fediverse per se, I switched to linux a year ago.
The only service that's hard to drop/switch away from is Youtube imo.

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[-] breadcat@sh.itjust.works 22 points 2 months ago

I keep seeing this type stuff but neither peertube or friendica are genuine replacements at this point, mastodon is weaksauce compared to akkoma or a misskey fork, and loops is alpha software. also yes signal is centralized but it just works and has contact discovery so it owns matrix and xmpp when compared to whatsapp. basically none of this stuff is truly ready

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[-] Opinionhaver@feddit.uk 20 points 2 months ago

Switching from WhatsApp to any other messaging service isn't a realistic option for quite many places. I'd be more than willing to switch but of all the people in my contacts (including my entire customer base) there's like 3 people using Signal but every single one of them has WhatsApp. Even the 60+ year olds.

[-] autonomoususer@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

This does not help.

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[-] namingthingsiseasy@programming.dev 19 points 2 months ago

I'm surprised this hasn't been said yet... but what I hate most about Signal is its requirement for a phone number. I don't want to be identified, and I want to be able to create multiple separate accounts with different identities if I want to.

I also hate the fact that it's a mobile-first service. Yes, there is a desktop application (and just one really crappy one at that), but it's clearly designed to revolve first and foremost around your phone and be virtually impossible to use without one. As someone who hates writing on a 3-inch screen, this is a also non-starter for me.

I understand the arguments about perfectionism, but this is too much. I'll stick with XMPP, Matrix and IRC, thanks.

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[-] WheelcharArtist@lemmy.world 18 points 2 months ago

why signal?

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[-] JackbyDev@programming.dev 16 points 2 months ago* (last edited 2 months ago)

Why didn't I hear about this until the day of?

[-] Temperche@discuss.tchncs.de 16 points 2 months ago

FB Marketplace --> Flohmarkt is missing!

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[-] malcriada_lala@lemmy.world 16 points 2 months ago

I like this. I hope it starts conversations. Does anyone know if there are good alternatives to Discord?

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[-] WalrusDragonOnABike@reddthat.com 16 points 2 months ago

Feel like Matrix or Email would have made more sense as a federated service for communication, but get Signal is a lot more well known.

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[-] batist@lemmy.world 15 points 2 months ago

A LinkedIn alternative, anyone?

[-] MajorHavoc@programming.dev 17 points 2 months ago

Mastodon seems to be filling this niche (professional networking and job seeking) at the moment. I'm curious if something more targeted is emerging yet as well.

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Fediverse

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