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submitted 1 week ago* (last edited 5 days ago) by Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com to c/div0@lemmy.dbzer0.com

Ahoy mateys!

We are closing the voting on this topic a couple of days early as the result is already conclusive., Our threshold for passing the motion was for 2/3 of voting members in favor. We have far exceeded that threshold (see below) and have a good number of overall responses, so the proposed policy change has now been approved and takes effect immediately.

Our new policy on Xitter links

  1. No Xitter links are to be posted on this instance from the date of this announcement.
  2. Workarounds such as link shorteners and alternative front-ends that resolve to Xitter posts are also banned.
  3. Screenshots will still be permitted as per the overwhelming number of comments in support of this option.
  4. Exception: In rare cases there may be a need to verify the veracity of a Xitter post. If this need arises, then you may post a https://xcancel.com/ or https://archive.is/ version of the link. Please note this option should only be used sparingly and exclusively for fact-checking purposes.

We will begin communicating this instance policy change to all our users today.

Please try to be helpful to anyone who accidentally posts a Xitter link who may not yet be aware of the policy change, and/or feel free to report in the usual way.

N.B.: For the loopholers - by "Xitter links" we mean any links to content hosted on X (formerly Twitter). Alternative Xitter front-ends are also banned under this policy, unless exception #4 applies. Edit: The ban also applies to other Xitter-owned domains such as their photo blobstore (pbs) domain at pbd.twimg.com

Thanks to everyone involved for participating in the vote!


**The final tally is as follows: **

  • For: Salty Dog: An icon of two crossed cutlasses with a skull in the center in orange-red, black and white colors (2), Vouched: a minimalist compass icon. Orangered color (7), Deck Hand: An icon of anchor crossed with two staves in orange-red, black and white colors (5), First Mate: a pirate ship's steering wheel, orangered color (3), Powder Monkey: An icon of powder barrel in orange-red, black and white colors (2), Threadiverse Enjoyer: An icon of a doubloon with a black hole in the center in orange-red, black and white colors (1)
  • Against:
  • Local Community: +2.6
  • Outsider sentiment: Very Positive
  • Total: +22.6
  • Percentage: 100.00%

To break this down a little differently:

  • Home instance users voted 93% in favor of the proposal (284/307)
  • External instance users voted 97% in favor of the proposal (70/72 note: these are not counted, but good to know)
  • Donating and vouched for users voted 100% in favor of the proposal (20/20 votes).
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[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 37 points 1 week ago

now this is how you do a rule change!

  • community poll
  • exception for the huge perceived benefit of allowing screenshots
  • workarounds and tools for when needed
  • overall very well written and communicated

others (ahem) should follow the example you provided here!

[-] YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Home instance users voted 93% in favor of the proposal (284/307)

Donating and vouched for users voted 100% in favor of the proposal (20/20 votes).

At least we know in this poll it is 3.07 instance users votes (1/100 non-supporting, non-vouched and non-mvp users, cannot exceed +/- 10) vs 20 donated/vouched users votes. This is definitely a fair way to poll.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 4 points 1 week ago

right! the math is crazy rigorous and i wouldn’t expect just any random admin to be able to do all that, but it’s certaintly something to aspire towards

[-] Grainne@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I don’t think pay to win democracy is a fair way to poll personally. Doesn’t fit right with me to give those with the luxury of spare cash a louder voice.

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[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 36 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I've asked this question before because I feel it's best to clarify: does this also include URLs to content hosted on related but separate services, like the image hosting CDN at pbs.twimg.com?

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 43 points 1 week ago

Thanks for the question. The ban also applies to other Xitter-owned domains such as their photo blobstore (pbs) domain.

[-] rtxn@lemmy.world 18 points 1 week ago

Awesome, thanks.

[-] flicker@lemmy.dbzer0.com 34 points 1 week ago

I've never seen such a one-sided poll. I'm very impressed.

[-] borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com 17 points 1 week ago

It reaffirms my decision both to migrate here for my home instance and to start donating when I did.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago

anarchy brother. we self select pretty hard.

[-] S_H_K@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 week ago
[-] atro_city@fedia.io 31 points 1 week ago

About time. Good riddance. I hope other instances follow suit. Xitter is a damn plague.

[-] Stern@lemmy.world 25 points 1 week ago

Get 'em King.

[-] _cryptagion@lemmy.dbzer0.com 25 points 1 week ago
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[-] samus12345@lemm.ee 16 points 1 week ago

As an external instance user, I would have supported this. Notable tweets can be reported on without giving any clicks to Xitter.

[-] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 13 points 1 week ago

Out of curiosity, what was the sentiment for those who voted against? Or did they not comment?

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 43 points 1 week ago

I think they could be summarized as:

  • Opposition to any form of censorship and/or concerns about "slippery slope" of banning Xitter links - i.e., what about Meta links?
  • It's important to be able to post newsworthy tweets in order to hold them to account and have a record.
  • Concerns about fact-checking - i.e., how can we check veracity of Twitter links if all we have is screenshots?
  • Some folks wanted to ban all Xitter links, including screen shots and xcancel links, for a complete blackout.

We've tried our best to address those concerns in the policy above, which is a bit of a compromise position that tries to take as many of these concerns into account as we reasonably could. But of course some are mutually exclusive positions, so it's not going to satisfy 100% of users.

[-] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 12 points 1 week ago

Thanks for the summary. I think the rules you listed above capture all but the first.

I mean, the first is a whataboutism so I wouldn't even consider it. I would have said, "Fine... we'll discuss meta next but we're discussing Twitter NOW. If you are objecting because we aren't including Meta, then you're not debating in good faith."

[-] UniversalMonk@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I'm against because I think it's just censorship. Funny how when it was twitter, no one had problems. But Musk bought it and now it's a problem.

My experience is that there is no fucking difference between how it was and how it is now. Lemmy just hates Musk.

Having said that, I'm not really passionate about it either way. And as long as screen shots can still be shown, I'm cool.

But guys, you're not even making a dent in Musk's money hoard by avoiding linking to it. lmao

And hey, it's this instance. And it was voted on, so I can totally accept it. I'd much rather it be a vote than some power-hungry guy just making the decision. :)

[-] YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago

I was against it because I wanted to do screenshots or alternative front ends for any twitter links. You should also be able to provide an original source for a tweet, like an archive link. I didn't comment because I knew my opinion/vote on this didn't matter. Not only do the majority hate twitter (with little interest in fact-checking tweets), but I also don't donate and saw that my 1 non-donation vote equates to nothing in the comments of that thread. Now the only thing users can do is screenshots, which is pretty disappointing. This and another big mod reason is making me so disillusioned with this instance.

[-] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago

Your first two points are allowed though.

Screenshots are permitted as well as one alternative front end.

The rule doesn't bar you from putting a twitter link in the comments or as part of the post body.

That said what is your argument exactly?

[-] YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Yes I read this post. They allow screenshots, and one front end that is to be used rarely and sparingly. I said why I originally voted no, if you check the original vote thread it did not mention allowing screenshots, people asked for that in the comments. It was about banning all twitter content. Also the rule says no links in this instance, it does not mention allowed in body of post or in comments, in fact an admin said auto mod will remove links in posts AND comments.

https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/16280648

Once we have confirmed it is working as expected then it will auto-remove the post or comment with a specific modlog reason to explain the policy.

Edit: also must everything be an argument? I thought you were just curious.

[-] CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

I was curious about the reasons why people would vote against the measure, so thank you for providing it. I don't think "being able to provide a source" is a good enough reason not to vote against it since methods to do so are provided, even without the changes that the admins made.

I mean "argument" as in "what is your reasoning", like in a debate. That's how we learn and how we grow as a society, by debating weighing the pros and cons of why you have a belief.

Not everything is a disagreement, per se, but healthy debates are necessary to ensure voices are heard and accommodations made.

In the original thread, I offered arguments why screenshots should be okay. Hell in this post, I made a counter argument that in rare instances twitter links should be allowed. But I didn't only say "twitter links should be allowed". I provided an argument/reason as to why in certain cases it should be allowed.

[-] YarrMatey@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago

Gotcha, sorry, that is my bad for assuming bad intentions. I dislike like confrontations that are unproductive.

I am not enthusiastic about the wording of rarely and sparingly for the alternative front end so I still feel pretty dissatisfied with the new rules. I was ok with not linking directly to twitter, just needed a way to see tweets alternatively like in archive or an alternative front end. I've seen places where fake tweets are the norm and people don't know if something is real or not, I want to prevent that. To do that, the alternative front end would need to be used unrestricted. Also someone mentioned a front end can still be modified (?) so archive would be nice at that point as an additional method.

But I don't think anything I say really matters by now. It feels pointless to complain about something set in stone.

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago

If you feel like you want to always include a xcancel link alongside a tweet screenshot then I honestly doubt anyone would have a problem with it. The "rarely and sparingly" is just to make emphasize that in many cases it's not really necessary, like for memes. If there's any doubt as to whether a tweet is fake or not then I'd encourage you to provide the xcancel link.

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[-] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago

Seems like a great call!

Hey, there are only 20 paying users anyway, right? So were no vouchers used this time? And does a person vouching apply per vote or to the person (like is it a proxy vote or a renewable vote coupon?)

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago

We had a total of 7 "vouched" for users (you can see this by hovering over the icons). Once a user has been vouched for, then they can participate in all votes unless that privilege is subsequently withdrawn.

[-] codexarcanum@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 1 week ago

Thanks for the clarification!

(I'll have to check the icons on my computer. I mainly use voyager on android and inline custom emoji support needs some work still.)

[-] drdalek@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 points 1 week ago

Good riddance! (and any other relatable Green Day songs)

[-] irreticent@lemmy.world 5 points 1 week ago

American Idiot comes to mind.

[-] Lemminary@lemmy.world 9 points 1 week ago

Those graphics are sick! :D

[-] terminhell@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 week ago

Oh noooo...oh right, already had them blacklisted.

[-] airportline@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Congratulations

[-] FundMECFSResearch 7 points 1 week ago

So archive links count as “alternative frontends”?

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

I think our preference would be to stick to xcancel.com links if you need to link for factchecking. I hadn't given much consideration to archive links though, to be honest. I'd be interested to know your thoughts on those, and I'll review the comments again on that topic. We can always tweak the policy if need be.

[-] jatone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

I think picking one domain for fact checking purposes is the best option just for clarity purposes. I could see using archival links as a general 'banned domains' approach worth considering in the future.

[-] alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

+1 to this

I think that if we allow xcancel links for fact checking, archive links (and other nitter instances) should be allowed in that context as well, both for posterity (if tweet gets deleted) and since - from my experience - alternative front ends often come and go like the tide

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[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 week ago

Threativore report filter has been setup for post url/body and comments. This filter will only apply to local communities. After a brief period of validating, we'll switch it to autoremove (which will provide a built-in appeal option)

[-] bufalo1973@lemm.ee 5 points 1 week ago

It would be nice if Lemmy had a plugin or something like that to change xitter links to xcancel.

It would be nicer if everything had that plugin.

[-] Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago
[-] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

I'm interested in seeing the end of this slope.

[-] deadlyremote@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 points 1 week ago

How will this be enforced?

If you post a link to twitter.com will the comment just instantly be removed? Or would it be changed to an xcancel link?

[-] Flatworm7591@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 points 1 week ago

Hi fuckwit_mcbumble lol,

We are still configuring the threativore automod settings. Initially we will set it to autoreport any suspected violations for human review. Once we have confirmed it is working as expected then it will auto-remove the post or comment with a specific modlog reason to explain the policy.

[-] Martineski@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago* (last edited 1 week ago)

Will the users receive a ~~private~~ direct message for that as well?

[-] db0@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 1 week ago

No, but if we turn on autoremove the modlog will include an appeal method

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