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submitted 1 day ago by cm0002@lemmy.world to c/science@mander.xyz
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[-] qjkxbmwvz@startrek.website 57 points 1 day ago

While neat, this is not self-sustaining


it's taking more energy to power it than you're getting out of it. (You can build a fusion device on your garage if you're so inclined, though obviously this is much neater than that!)

One viewpoint is that we'll never get clean energy from these devices, not because they won't work, but because you get a lot of neutrons out of these devices. And what do we do with neutrons? We either bash them into lead and heat stuff up (boring and not a lot of energy), or we use them to breed fissile material, which is a lot more energetically favorable. So basically, the economically sound thing to do is to use your fusion reactor to power your relatively conventional fission reactor. Which is still way better than fossil fuels IMHO, so that's something.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

the economically sound thing to do is to use your fusion reactor to power your relatively conventional fission reactor

A new one to me. Considering how expensive these are, it would be surprising that traditional Uranium mining/enrichment wouldn't still have an edge. But considering that commercial Tritium is exclusively produced from nuclear reactors, there is a circular money pit economy opportunity.

[-] DaTingGoBrrr@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago

Helion has an interesting take on fusion reactors that generate power using electro magnetism and Copenhagen Atomics are trying to create Thorium reactors. I hope they will work better than the boiling they use in tocamac reactors

[-] zurohki@aussie.zone 20 points 1 day ago

It seems like it's probably too late.

Even if we crack fusion power today, I can't see it being deployed cheaply enough and quickly enough to compete with solar/wind+batteries. By the time we could get production fusion plants up and ready to feed power into the grid, it'd be 2050 and nobody would be interested in buying electricity from it.

Fusion would provide orders of magnitude more power than solar. There's a limit on how much we can practically get from solar, fusion would allow us to exceed that.

[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 2 points 23 hours ago* (last edited 21 hours ago)

There’s a limit on how much we can practically get from solar,

Most residential buildings can self sustain from solar. Dense cities not, but there is dual use grazing and agriculture land, and small portions of desert that could power the world. Solar is enough for type 1 civilization. Nuclear plant energy density is overstated due to their + uranium mine exclusion zones, which could produce more solar power than the uranium content available in those mines.

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[-] zurohki@aussie.zone 3 points 1 day ago

Yeah, but there's no prizes for producing way more power than we use. We're not running out of space to put solar panels or batteries.

'Too much power' has never been an issue, and will likely not be an issue ever with solar. There are multitudes of technologies, especially in industry, that are currently impractical because they would consume too much energy.

[-] zurohki@aussie.zone 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 18 hours ago)

We can already massively increase generation to meet the needs of those industries whenever we want. They're impractical due to the cost of meeting their energy requirements, not because it's impossible.

Unless fusion power plants are going to be free to build or last forever, they have the same practical limit as every other type of generation - they have to be paid for. It isn't clear that fusion would be a huge step forward in cost per megawatt-hour.

[-] AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works 1 points 18 hours ago

The main attraction of fusion is near limitless clean energy generation. The corollary of near limitless is that per unit price will be extremely low. The tech is inherently scalable to larger reactors, and that means if you're going to be building a reactor anyway, it's easy to combine it with nearby industrial development plans to take advantage of it.

[-] zurohki@aussie.zone 1 points 18 hours ago

Bigger, more powerful fusion gear isn't going to also be more expensive?

Lots of generation technologies scale, and costs fall as they do. That's not something unique to fusion power.

[-] booly@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 day ago

I think if we figure out nuclear fusion there will be induced demand for energy, in applications that were previously infeasible: desalination via distillation instead of reverse osmosis, direct capture of CO2 from the atmosphere, large scale water transport, ice and snowmaking, indoor farming, synthesized organic compounds for things like carbon sequestration or fossil fuel replacement or even food, etc.

Geoengineering might not be feasible today, but if energy becomes really cheap we might see something different.

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[-] sdfric88@lemmy.sdf.org 3 points 1 day ago

Long distance transmission creates enormous power wastage, and cities are rarely located in places ideal for large scale wind and solar. Fusion can help deliver power to urban centres, reducing the acreage needed for a solar farm.

There are also inland places in northern latitudes that benefit little from solar. Wind and fusion would be a great energy mix for those places.

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[-] Spacehooks@reddthat.com 4 points 1 day ago

Maybe for deep sea or space?

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[-] DaddleDew@lemmy.world 69 points 1 day ago

That is one technology that I don't care if China steals secrets to make it happen faster.

[-] pennomi@lemmy.world 77 points 1 day ago

No need!

The data gathered by EAST will support the development of other reactors, both in China and internationally. China is part of the International Thermonuclear Experimental Reactor (ITER) program, which involves dozens of countries, including the U.S., U.K. Japan, South Korea and Russia.

[-] some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org 39 points 1 day ago

If we were a smarter society, we’d end our stupid cold war with them and cooperate.

[-] blackluster117@sh.itjust.works 45 points 1 day ago

If they were a more humane society, we likely would.

[-] BigBenis@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

More like if they were willing to embrace capitalistic western values and bend over for America whenever we're feeling frisky

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[-] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 44 points 1 day ago

More humane like Nazi-America, or more humane like Warcrimes-Russia? Description unclear, please clarify.

[-] guy@piefed.social 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

More humane as in respecting human rights I suppose

[-] kugel7c@feddit.org 3 points 1 day ago

Is there a state that is not disrespecting human rights ? I for one haven't heard of any.

[-] guy@piefed.social 5 points 1 day ago

Degrees in hell maybe.

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[-] xnx@slrpnk.net 19 points 1 day ago

Yeah more humane like Israel… America has been installing dictators all around the world for decades what are you talking about? You think America cares about humanity? You cant even birth a child without a $10,000+ bill.

America cares about moneyyyyy and nothing more

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[-] humanspiral@lemmy.ca 3 points 1 day ago

0 theoretical hope for fusion energy to ever provide electricity under 30c/kwh. These are hot plasma experiments, which could be used to produce mass HHO from water vapour at just 2200C-3000C, even if endothermic. Can get energy from concentrated solar mirrors or just PV solar if plasma is used. Cooling magnets is a huge energy drain. HHO provide the highest turbine energy gain, though a net gain pathway is just slightly more in reach than fusion.

[-] ByteJunk@lemmy.world 2 points 23 hours ago

Yes but do you concur?

[-] hmonkey@lemy.lol 72 points 1 day ago

Tony Stark was able to build this in a cave!

[-] DaMonsterKnees@lemmy.world 38 points 1 day ago
[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 20 points 1 day ago

We're not Tony Stark, sir.

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[-] AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip 1 points 22 hours ago

You know instead of the artificial sun we could use the real one no? I still think fusion is a good investment on the skill tree but not for consumer energy. Also can someone explain why we use solar panels instead of mirrors that heat up water and spin turbines? Almost every other method of producing energy uses that and from my understanding its more efficient and probably cheaper.

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this post was submitted on 21 Jan 2025
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