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[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 52 points 1 day ago

It's so funny how all this is only a problem within a capitalist frame of reference.

[-] masquenox@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

What they call "AI" is only "intelligent" within a capitalist frame of reference, too.

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[-] LovableSidekick@lemmy.world 20 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Marcus is right, incremental improvements in AIs like ChatGPT will not lead to AGI and were never on that course to begin with. What LLMs do is fundamentally not "intelligence", they just imitate human response based on existing human-generated content. This can produce usable results, but not because the LLM has any understanding of the question. Since the current AI surge is based almost entirely on LLMs, the delusion that the industry will soon achieve AGI is doomed to fall apart - but not until a lot of smart speculators have gotten in and out and made a pile of money.

[-] randon31415@lemmy.world 31 points 1 day ago

The hype should go the other way. Instead of bigger and bigger models that do more and more - have smaller models that are just as effective. Get them onto personal computers; get them onto phones; get them onto Arduino minis that cost $20 - and then have those models be as good as the big LLMs and Image gen programs.

[-] Yaky@slrpnk.net 23 points 1 day ago

Other than with language models, this has already happened: Take a look at apps such as Merlin Bird ID (identifies birds fairly well by sound and somewhat okay visually), WhoBird (identifies birds by sound, ) Seek (visually identifies plants, fungi, insects, and animals). All of them work offline. IMO these are much better uses of ML than spammer-friendly text generation.

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[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 10 points 1 day ago

This has already started to happen. The new llama3.2 model is only 3.7GB and it WAAAAY faster than anything else. It can thow a wall of text at you in just a couple of seconds. You're still not running it on $20 hardware, but you no longer need a 3090 to have something useful.

[-] dustyData@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Well, you see, that's the really hard part of LLMs. Getting good results is a direct function of the size of the model. The bigger the model, the more effective it can be at its task. However, there's something called compute efficient frontier (technical but neatly explained video about it). Basically you can't make a model more effective at their computations beyond said linear boundary for any given size. The only way to make a model better, is to make it larger (what most mega corps have been doing) or radically change the algorithms and method underlying the model. But the latter has been proving to be extraordinarily hard. Mostly because to understand what is going on inside the model you need to think in rather abstract and esoteric mathematical principles that bend your mind backwards. You can compress an already trained model to run on smaller hardware. But to train them, you still need the humongously large datasets and power hungry processing. This is compounded by the fact that larger and larger models are ever more expensive while providing rapidly diminishing returns. Oh, and we are quickly running out of quality usable data, so shoveling more data after a certain point starts to actually provide worse results unless you dedicate thousands of hours of human labor producing, collecting and cleaning the new data. That's all even before you have to address data poisoning, where previously LLM generated data is fed back to train a model but it is very hard to prevent it from devolving into incoherence after a couple of generations.

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[-] JayDee@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 day ago

That would be innovation, which I'm convinced no company can do anymore.

It feels like I learn that one of our modern innovations was already thought up and written down into a book in the 1950s, and just wasn't possible at that time due to some limitation in memory, precision, or some other metric. All we did was do 5 decades of marginal improvement to get to it, while not innovating much at all.

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[-] nl4real@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Fingers crossed.

[-] dog_@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago
[-] CerealKiller01@lemmy.world 32 points 1 day ago

Huh?

The smartphone improvements hit a rubber wall a few years ago (disregarding folding screens, that compose a small market share, improvement rate slowed down drastically), and the industry is doing fine. It's not growing like it use to, but that just means people are keeping their smartphones for longer periods of time, not that people stopped using them.

Even if AI were to completely freeze right now, people will continue using it.

Why are people reacting like AI is going to get dropped?

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 18 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

People are dumping billions of dollars into it, mostly power, but it cannot turn profit.

So the companies who, for example, revived a nuclear power facility in order to feed their machine with ever diminishing returns of quality output are going to shut everything down at massive losses and countless hours of human work and lifespan thrown down the drain.

This will have an economic impact quite large as many newly created jobs go up in smoke and businesses who structured around the assumption of continued availability of high end AI need to reorganize or go out of business.

Search up the Dot Com Bubble.

[-] Ultraviolet@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

Because novelty is all it has. As soon as it stops improving in a way that makes people say "oh that's neat", it has to stand on the practical merits of its capabilities, which is, well, not much.

[-] pdlorah@lemmy.ca 11 points 1 day ago

People pay real money for smartphones.

[-] Petter1@lemm.ee 10 points 1 day ago

People pay real Money for AIaaS as well..

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[-] Defaced@lemmy.world 16 points 1 day ago

This is why you're seeing news articles from Sam Altman saying that AGI will blow past us without any societal impact. He's trying to lessen the blow of the bubble bursting for AI/ML.

[-] Mushroomm@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 day ago

It's been 5 minutes since the new thing did a new thing. Is it the end?

[-] rational_lib@lemmy.world 14 points 1 day ago

As I use copilot to write software, I have a hard time seeing how it'll get better than it already is. The fundamental problem of all machine learning is that the training data has to be good enough to solve the problem. So the problems I run into make sense, like:

  1. Copilot can't read my mind and figure out what I'm trying to do.
  2. I'm working on an uncommon problem where the typical solutions don't work
  3. Copilot is unable to tell when it doesn't "know" the answer, because of course it's just simulating communication and doesn't really know anything.

2 and 3 could be alleviated, but probably not solved completely with more and better data or engineering changes - but obviously AI developers started by training the models on the most useful data and strategies that they think work best. 1 seems fundamentally unsolvable.

I think there could be some more advances in finding more and better use cases, but I'm a pessimist when it comes to any serious advances in the underlying technology.

[-] ggppjj@lemmy.world 13 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Not copilot, but I run into a fourth problem:
4. The LLM gets hung up on insisting that a newer feature of the language I'm using is wrong and keeps focusing on "fixing" it, even though it has access to the newest correct specifications where the feature is explicitly defined and explained.

[-] rumba@lemmy.zip 5 points 1 day ago

Oh god yes, ran into this asking for a shell.nix file with a handful of tricky dependencies. It kept trying to do this insanely complicated temporary pull and build from git instead of just a 6 line file asking for the right packages.

[-] ggppjj@lemmy.world 6 points 1 day ago

"This code is giving me a return value of X instead of Y"

"Ah the reason you're having trouble is because you initialized this list with brackets instead of new()."

"How would a syntax error give me an incorrect return"

"You're right, thanks for correcting me!"

"Ok so like... The problem though."

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So you use other people's open source code without crediting the authors or respecting their license conditions? Good for you, parasite.

[-] rational_lib@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

Very frequently, yes. As well as closed source code and intellectual property of all kinds. Anyone who tells you otherwise is a liar.

[-] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

Ah, I guess I'll have to question why I am lying to myself then. Don't be a douchebag. Don't use open source without respecting copyrights & licenses. The authors are already providing their work for free. Don't shit on that legacy.

[-] helopigs@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Programmers don't have the luxury of using inferior toolsets.

[-] raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world 2 points 21 hours ago

That statement is as dumb as it is non-sensical.

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[-] Someplaceunknown@fedia.io 222 points 2 days ago

"LLMs such as they are, will become a commodity; price wars will keep revenue low. Given the cost of chips, profits will be elusive," Marcus predicts. "When everyone realizes this, the financial bubble may burst quickly."

Please let this happen

[-] orl0pl@lemmy.world 37 points 1 day ago

Market crash and third world war. What a time to be alive!

[-] Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 191 points 2 days ago

I wish just once we could have some kind of tech innovation without a bunch of douchebag techbros thinking it's going to solve all the world's problems with no side effects while they get super rich off it.

[-] ohwhatfollyisman@lemmy.world 61 points 2 days ago

... bunch of douchebag techbros thinking it's going to solve all the world's problems with no side effects...

one doesn't imagine any of them even remotely thinks a technological panacaea is feasible.

... while they get super rich off it.

because they're only focusing on this.

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[-] oyo@lemm.ee 9 points 1 day ago

Of course most don't actually even believe it, that's just the pitch to get that VC juice. It's basically fraud all the way down.

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[-] KeenFlame@feddit.nu 16 points 1 day ago

I am so tired of the ai hype and hate. Please give me my gen art interest back please just make it obscure again to program art I beg of you

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[-] halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world 107 points 2 days ago

No shit. This was obvious from day one. This was never AGI, and was never going to be AGI.

Institutional investors saw an opportunity to make a shit ton of money and pumped it up as if it was world changing. They'll dump it like they always do, it will crash, and they'll make billions in the process with absolutely no negative repercussions.

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[-] Greg@lemmy.ca 71 points 2 days ago

largely based on the notion that LLMs will, with continued scaling, become artificial general intelligence

Who said that LLMs were going to become AGI? LLMs as part of an AGI system makes sense but not LLMs alone becoming AGI. Only articles and blog posts from people who didn't understand the technology were making those claims. Which helped feed the hype.

I 100% agree that we're going to see an AI market correction. It's going to take a lot of hard human work to achieve the real value of LLMs. The hype is distracting from the real valuable and interesting work.

[-] mutant_zz@lemmy.world 28 points 1 day ago

OpenAI published a paper about GPT titled "Sparks of AGI".

I don't think they really believe it but it's good to bring in VC money

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[-] DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone 51 points 2 days ago
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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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