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NGL, not asking for a friend. Given the current trends in US politics, it seems prudent to at least look into it.

Most of the online content on the topic seems to be by immigration attorneys hustling ultra rich people. I'm not ultra rich. I have a job in tech, could work remotely, also have enough assets to not desperately need money if the cost of living were low enough.

I am a native English speaker, fluent enough in Spanish to survive in a Spanish speaking country. I am old, male, cis, hetero, basically asexual at this point. I am outgoing, comfortable among strangers.

What's good and bad about where you live? Would it be OK for a outsider, newcomer?

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[-] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 7 points 20 hours ago

I'm in France and my cousin married an American.

Cost of living is high and the language is bullshit, but the standards of living are some of the best in the world. Very old established democracy and rule of law, workers rights, social security, and whatever the complete opposite of political apathy is. Culture is rich with a disproportionate level of global relevance for the country's size. The location is ideal in the middle of europe, with a good variety of landscapes and climate.

Internet is cheap and fast, but i don't know anything about the state of tech jobs.

I don't know much about the tax system either but my assumption is you might save money just on the healthcare alone.

Overall i wouldn't recommend, you'd be better off in a country with a language closer to english, such as most countries north of France. They'll have better english proficiency and you'll learn the language easier.

[-] multicolorKnight@lemmy.world 4 points 20 hours ago

France always comes up on lists of good places to live, and there are Francophiles here as everywhere. I admire the place, but I chose Spanish instead of French when it was time to start studying another language, so that die was cast a long time ago.

[-] thawed_caveman@lemmy.world 3 points 20 hours ago

Yeah i don't think it's worth learning french for almost any reason, lots more people speak spanish

[-] EnderMB@lemmy.world 3 points 18 hours ago

I'm in the UK, and I work with a LOT of Americans already, so know this first hand:

  • You fuckers are always in for a culture shock when you realise that everywhere isn't like London. You seem to either expect London or Harry Potter Land, but when you end up somewhere like Bristol, Leeds, or Birmingham the frame of reference just dies and you see the wheels turning in your head trying to make sense of it all.
  • Weirdly, you seem to really like our supermarkets. They're a lot smaller than yours, meal deals are a novelty that never gets old, and paying the price on the tag is the greatest thing ever.
  • You love our bread, and our chocolate is like crack to you. You'd think that you'd moved to France or something...
  • Butter on bread will fuck you up. You use Mayo all the time, but we use butter/spread, and it messes with your minds.
  • You quickly learn that Europe is a continent, and that cultures across the continent are very different to one another. You also learn that no one knows US history that well, or that we had a war with you (since we have basically had a war with everyone at some point).
  • The drinking culture is a really interesting one. Some love it, some hate it. It's a staple of British life
  • We get paid a lot less than you do, but your money will go much further because you're not spending it on healthcare. You'll also get taxed a lot, but ultimately you'll earn enough to be comfortable, and a comfortable life in the UK is nice.

To answer your question, you're more than welcome here, and it's much easier to get a visa to the UK for you than for us to go to the US. Expect some people to give you shit for Trump, but give them shit back for Brexit and electing the Tories for 15 years.

[-] multicolorKnight@lemmy.world 2 points 16 hours ago* (last edited 16 hours ago)

Now we're talking. I have been to the UK quite a bit, and work with plenty of Brits here, so:
Americans are not generally in the habit of addressing people as "you fuckers" until we know you better. :)
UK supermarkets are more like US conveniences stores with more food and no fuel pumps in front. They are OK.
Agreed, the existence of anything besides London, Liverpool, and maybe Manchester is totally a blank to us. Went to Birmingham, had no ckue.
Butter on bread is the only way, don't know where you got that from.
No reason you guys should care about US history. English history is much more interesting.
Engkish pubs are good. Beer, I think, has gotten better in the US recently.
After Brexit, the UK has permanently renounced the right to criticize anyone's politics. Still, recent developments there give me hope that it's possible to come out the other end of this.
Thank you.

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 24 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

You would do good here in The Netherlands. Lots of tech jobs, over here you actually have rights as an employee. No max amount of sick days for example, as no one plans a certain amount of days to be sick. The "FrEeDoM" Americans claim to have is so twisted and extremity far away from actual freedom. Here in NL I do feel I have true freedom. As in: not having to be scared when going out on the streets at night, no matter where I go. There are no guns. No crimes against humanity. Of course we do have issues, every country does. But they are tiny compared to most countries. Although we did vote for right wing parties sadly, we're not heading in the direction I want.

Oh and EVERYONE speaks English. From child to boomer. Officially it's not a foreign language anymore due to the high level English most speak. They are even discussing it should be a 3rd national language.

Edit: there's also a (very unfair to us natives) 30%!!! tax cut for expats to make NL more attractive. So you will make a lot of money yet pay less taxes while having loads of benifits as an employee.

Only issue right now is finding a house. Not enough houses so insane prices. A real housing crisis.

[-] Dearth@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago

Do you think bike shops in there Nerherlands would be interested in hiring American bicycle mechanics?

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 2 points 17 hours ago

Yeah, for sure. Mechanics are getting scarce, everyone is pushed to get "HiGhEr EdUcAtIoN" so everyone knows how to use a keyboard but never used a hammer and a screwdriver. A lot of uddy of mine is a carpenter, the money he makes is insane because there just aren't that many skilled people put there anymore. Our bikes have a bit different design, people sit more up right as we use it as a form of transportation instead of for sports. But the mechanics work the same. Although electric bikes are taking over the market right now.

[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 3 points 19 hours ago

I have American friends who emigrated to the Netherlands and I go there a lot on business too. There are a few other things that are worth considering: Dutch people are generally friendly, but they also tend to take a strong line on assimilation. If you want to live there, learn Dutch and learn how Dutch culture works. Otherwise you won't fit in. As with any society, there are unwritten rules and norms of behavior that might seem strange at first. For example, the Dutch value frankness more than diplomacy. That can make them seem blunt, even to Americans.

Dutch is not far from English, both are on the same branch of the Germanic languages, but it's very idiomatic, so fluency can be hard to achieve. Also, the fact that everyone's so good at English reduces the pressure to learn Dutch. Language learning's quicker when it's the only way you can communicate.

And the previous poster's comment on the housing shortage is no exaggeration: it's a crisis. Expect difficulty and predatory middlemen when seeking housing.

Also, the weather can be intense: freezing North Sea winds and sideways rain.

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 3 points 17 hours ago

Whaaaaaat....?

We are very multicultural, if you don't want to adjust, that's fine. There are enough people around who are similar to you. Only if you want to fit in you need to adjust, but that's in any culture. Over here there's not that much pressure to do that. Unless you live in the countryside.

Dutch and English are not similar at all. They have completely different origins. Dutch has a germanic origin and English an anglosaxon heritage.

The weather is not intense at all. It's just humid, so 25C feels like 35C and 5C feels like -5C. But not as humid as a rainforest. Near the coast there's some wind, but in the cities and inland not too much. Winters have become mild, summers kinda hot but compared to other regions of the world our climate is very mild. Just expect a lot of rain, but compared to the UK even that aspect is really mild too. Just prepare for us to always complain about it. And about everything else too.

Yeah, Dutch people are generally pretty blunt. When you tell something we don't like will will tell you, politely, where a British person would say "ah that's interesting". For autistic people (like me) our directness is really nice. No beating around the bush.

[-] thelsim@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 day ago

A small side note on that 30% ruling, it's only for highly skilled workers, so there are some requirements to meet.
Also, you'd best not boast about it to your Dutch coworkers if you want to make friends over here :)

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 1 points 17 hours ago

In tech it's not that hard to get it. It's purpose is to make NL attractive to educated workers. Especially these days there are not enough employees in many sectors, so as long as you have an education or can prove you have specialized work experience you're good.

[-] PrimeMinisterKeyes@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago

The housing crisis is prevalent everywhere in Europe, though. But it's not like droves of people have to sleep rough. Yes, rents keep going up, but they are still only a fraction of what you would pay in the US.
And you can actually still buy houses. Really cheap, even. Far off the highways, but some people opt in to exactly that.

[-] LordWiggle@lemmy.world 1 points 18 hours ago

The Netherlands has a worse housing crisis then the rest of Europe. Houses are not cheaper then in the US. Far from it. Also, the US is really big, so you can't say that actually. San Francisco and Detroit have completely different housing markets for example. Next to that, here in NL we don't build huizes from wood, which makes them more expensive as well. And our government extremity limited construction due to EU emission regulations because they are too scared to limit the biggest polutors, the farmers, with their massive export production. Because farmers protest with tractors and tractors are scary. So we prefer farming exports over housing apparently. Because we don't buy fruits and vegetables produced in The Netherlands, they are too expensive. We buy cheap tasteless junk from Spain and Egypt. So most agricultural production is for export. The profits of our farmers are more important to us then being able to pay our own bills and aging a roof over our heads.

[-] mayhair@discuss.tchncs.de 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

I don't know why anyone (who doesn't have ancestry there) would want to move to Pakistan. Sure, it's not completely undeveloped (otherwise I wouldn't be sending this message lol), but it still has a VEEERRRRRYY long way to go compared to other industrialised countries.

  • Electricity has become more reliable over the years, but you still have to deal with increasing bills, so that the government can pay off its IMF loans
  • Piped gas still isn't 24/7, it's off from 10 pm to 6 am
  • Tap water still isn't drinkable
  • Karachi, Lahore, and Islamabad disproportionately receive the lion's share of development while smaller cities are neglected
  • Even Karachi can be said to not be as developed as Lahore or Islamabad. When I visited it, I found that it was greatly overpopulated and many apartment buildings were extremely worn-down. Chipping paint for instance. My father says that since Lahore and Islamabad are a comfortable driving distance away from each other, the population is more evenly distributed between the two cities. Hyderabad's near Karachi, but remember, it's not a big three city ...
  • Even the development in Lahore and Islamabad is not optimal. Mostly relying on private housing projects, not making an effort to make them integrate with the rest of the city
  • Suboptimal public transport. In Lahore there is a public bus and metro system, but both don't cover too much of the city. For intercity buses, people rely on private companies such as Daewoo Express. And again, the reliance on private housing projects hinders true city-wide planning
  • Professionals (doctors, engineers, lawyers, etc.) receive very low salaries compared to what they could earn abroad. The devaluation of the rupee is related to it, but only partially. That's why millions of us have moved abroad to literally every other country, and thus why remittances are a big portion of this country's income
  • Lahore is literally the smoggiest city in the world right now. Did I mention it's one of the three most developed?
  • Too much non-air pollution as well. There is a culture of littering, partially because people aren't punished for it and thus have adopted a care-free attitude, and partially because there aren't enough outdoor wastebins

I haven't even gotten into the sociopolitical aspects ... I'd be writing a whole book at that point

[-] rozodru@lemmy.world 17 points 1 day ago

Canadian Here. prior to the election? we'd be welcoming. now? there seems to be a general sense of "we don't what that idiocy here" the right-wing cons of Canada would likely embrace Americans but the general consensus with my friends and family is that Americans are now considered morons (left and right leaning).

[-] Aaron@lemmy.nz 13 points 1 day ago

But wouldn't you want the ones who would uproot their lives because Trump was elected? It's the ones who voted for him that you wouldn't want. If anything, Canada could use all the non-maga you can get.

[-] NocturnalEngineer@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree.

[-] alehc@slrpnk.net 22 points 2 days ago

Mexican here. Generally, most of the population won't be very welcoming. Talking specifically about mexico city. You see, the amount of money you make in tech in the US will allow you to stay at the very best places in the city, which pushes native people out of those districts and makes them angry in the process. However, those districts are already popular for tourists/rich immigrants and that's probably for a reason. I guess business there benefit from this wealth availability so they will treat you well. I'm not rich so idk. Also, it's probably not hard to emigrate here bureaucracy wise.

Speaking Spanish, you will likely do very well in mexico. Good food, good nightlife, good safety and infrastructure (assuming you stay in the good zones), etc.

Personally, having traveled to other countries (talking about US and places in Europe specifically), I love the diversity of nationalities you can find. I think different backgrounds and experiences is very important to drive innovation. I'd love to see more of that in my home country so I'm for more people emigrating to mexico. Feel free to ask questions if you are curious.

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[-] thelsim@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 day ago

The Netherlands is generally quite friendly towards (English speaking) immigrants and expats. Almost everyone speaks English and no one really bats an eye at a non-Dutch resident in most of the major western cities (Amsterdam, Rotterdam, the Hague, etc.)
Housing is terrible though, prices are high and it'll be hard to find something nice. One advantage for you (or any US resident), is that you're exempt from the inburgering exam. Which means that you won't have to learn the language and won't be tested on your integration in Dutch society.

My partner is from abroad and they've experienced living here as quite pleasant. They weren't exempt from the exam though (different non-EU nationality), which was a bit of a nuisance. But in general, reception was positive. They've been living here for over 16 years now.
But like most of Europe, we've got a far-right government right now, so there's a lot of anti-immigration talk going round. Of course it's only aimed at what they think are the "wrong" (Middle-Eastern and African) kind of people, so I doubt Americans would ever have to deal with it.

How trans friendly is the Netherlands? I like bikes and tall people are hot, lol.

[-] Obi@sopuli.xyz 12 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

It's generally LGBTQ friendly especially in Amsterdam but as the other comment said there's also a far right movement going on so it's not all roses and rainbows.

[-] RandomVideos@programming.dev 16 points 1 day ago

Im from Romania and if i saw someone move here from a richer country, i would be confused

People in Romania are homophobic, racist, xenophobic. A significant percentage of romanians decided to work in another country in the EU, giving money to their family who are living in the country(or just leaving with everyone to another country)

At least over 50% of people pirate software here, including people working for the gouverment, so you dont have to use a VPN

Its also technically illegal to be homophobic, but no one has ever been punished for that

[-] Geth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 points 22 hours ago

I feel like romanians are casually all of the negative things you mentioned but at the same time they are very inclussive when someone tries their best to integrate. Also Romanians are mean to Romanians most of the time, but also would probably be super friendly to an American.

[-] mayhair@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Pakistan also relies heavily on remittances from emigrants working abroad, although unlike Romania, it's not to the extent of causing a population decrease yet. If it were to join an EU-style union (free movement and all) with relatively richer countries, then maybe that'll change.

That bit about not needing a VPN -- I consider it pretty much the only pro of living in such disadvantaged countries, to be honest.

[-] Delphia@lemmy.world 36 points 2 days ago

Why would I want people from a less privileged country coming here and stealing our jobs, putting a burden on our healthcare system and making housing even more expensive?

Congratulations America, you're now the english language Mexico... with worse Tacos.

[-] agent_nycto@lemmy.world 21 points 1 day ago

Hey not cool don't diss Mexico like that

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[-] skygirl@lemmy.world 30 points 2 days ago

I'm an American living and working in Europe for years now. It's pretty great, although language barriers can leave you feeling a little isolated sometimes. That said, the thought of going back to the US turns my stomach. European working culture is much more... Human. More understanding about things like sick days, better vacation packages and, better worker protections.

I wish the US could be better, but it no longer looks like that will happen in my lifetime so I'll do my best to find happiness here instead.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 3 points 23 hours ago

About language barriers: have you ever considered actually learning your host countries language?

[-] skygirl@lemmy.world 5 points 22 hours ago* (last edited 22 hours ago)

Of course. But learning a language as an adult is a huge challenge. I take lessons but it's slow progress, people aren't always understanding when you stumble or don't know words and I'm juggling full time professional work on top of it so time and mental energy are limited.

Even after years of practice I will never not sound like a foreigner, which is distancing.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

There is no need to be perfect. But it at least shows effort. I have met people who lived here for 40 years and never bothered to learn even simple words or phrases. And that lack of effort, this absolute disinterest in ones host society is, in my opinion, highly impolite and antisocial.

[-] PrimeMinisterKeyes@lemmy.world 1 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

In tech, is there really a need, though? All of this year's new hires I've met communicate exclusively in English. No-one cares.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

It might not be a job problem to just function, but not learning the local language makes you a bit anti-social in any other aspect.

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[-] skillissuer@discuss.tchncs.de 70 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Welcome to EU! Prepare for a cultural shift:

Considering that everyone on lemmy is 30+ communist tech worker, it's probably a welcome change

Speaking more specifically about Poland, depending on how you measure, we might have the most rapidly secularizing society in the world Some Americans (catholic fundamentalists) seem to think that you can just barge in, snatch a tradwife and plot of land and live like it's 50s, but these people are straight up delusional. Introducing ban on abortion, for example, erased full quarter of support for the party that did it (40% ish to 30% ish overnight) and caused largest protests since dissolution of Soviet Union. There are conservative women, but these tend to be 60+

In tech job market specifically, the bubble has ended (like everywhere else i guess), but if you're a senior or able to keep your current job you'll be fine (not sure how you'd get residence permit then). You'd need to lean Polish as a practical matter, because while lots of people do speak decent English, many don't (esp. 50+ and in small towns) and many official matters can be done in Polish only. Like everywhere else, there's division between more conservative rural areas and more liberal large cities; no one wants to live in the former, even locals, and so most of foreigners live in Warsaw (or Kraków, or Wrocław). It sounds like you'd blend in right away in one of these places. While property prices and rent went up since start of the plague, it's not as crushingly bad as in, say, Berlin or Rotterdam. Random benefits include ability to pirate absolutely everything without VPN with no consequences and ability to use complaint as a conversation starter

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[-] indomara@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago

I am originally from the US but moved to AU and am now a citizen. I got lucky and got out just before Trump's first presidency.

Life here is good. Like, better than most Americans can really understand. Healthcare is free, education is good and includes topics like critical thinking and understanding how to spot "fake news".

There is only a small aisle of frozen food in the grocery store, not nearly as much pre-packaged food. There are affordable fresh fruits and vegetables, and outside most grocery stores is an independent baker, butcher, fishmonger, and fruit and veg stand.

Minimum wage is $24.10 an hour, and you cannot be fired for no reason if you are a full time employee.

If you compare things (and adjust for AUD to USD) like rent, gas, milk, bread, eggs... Things cost about the same here as in the US.

We pay around the same amount in taxes, and get so much more.

Things aren't completely rosy, distressingly, Australia seems to want to emulate the US in certain ways which worries me.

There is also currently a bit of an economic downturn and while it's nothing like what I left behind, it does mean things cost more and luxuries have to be budgeted for.

I think anyone who isn't a dick would be welcome here. There are racist cunts here like everywhere, but generally Aussies are the kindest and most welcoming people.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 77 points 2 days ago

Depends how they behave. If they behave like "Expats", who don't care about integrating into our society, don't care about learning the local language even after years, they are not welcome.

If they integrate seamless (and this does not imply giving up their identity, just to make sure), and become a good member of this society, be welcome.

[-] futatorius@lemm.ee 2 points 19 hours ago* (last edited 19 hours ago)

That seems to be a hard thing for many Americans and Brits to do. I have a couple American friends living in Europe who've learned the language and immersed themselves in the culture, but they're exceptional. One even learned both the national and regional language. Not too many Americans who can converse in Catalan.

[-] Treczoks@lemmy.world 1 points 8 hours ago

It may be hard, but if you want to live in a foreign country, it is the minimum requirement I would expect. Forcing your host to permanently bend over backwards just to cater for your lack of effort is most impolite.

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this post was submitted on 13 Nov 2024
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