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Bernie Would Have Won (www.dropsitenews.com)
submitted 5 months ago by Alsephina@lemmy.ml to c/usa@lemmy.ml
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[-] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 128 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

He's right. In a declining capitalist state like the current US, workers want change. In the absence of a genuine working class party that correctly blames capitalism and the capitalist class for a revolution, you get a "radical" capitalist-funded party that at least points the blame at someone — marginalized people.

The dems only offer to preserve the status quo, and no one fucking wants the status quo.

Get organized. Liberal democracies in the imperial core historically always slide to fascism.

[-] RubicTopaz@lemmy.world 14 points 5 months ago

It's worth noting that "fascism" specifically is a eurocentric — or even more specifically a 20th century-centric — ideology. You could argue the US has always been "fascist", just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it — the countries it constantly wages wars on. Still a good way to describe the direction declining capitalist states are headed to, I guess.

[-] eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com 15 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You could argue the US has always been “fascist”, just that the fascism has been focused on people outside it

Hitler was inspired on how to treat the Jews, Romani, disabled, and queers, based on how we treated Native Americans and Black Americans. He saw the country doing so well in the world stage excluding millions from the same status and privilege as the normalized default, and thought it would work for Germany and Europe, by force.

America was founded by rich white oligarchs, it was never going to support anything good without a lot of people letting go unless they died.

EDIT: Sorry if you get double pinged, server had a hiccup as I was posting.

[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 13 points 5 months ago

Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.

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[-] MrThompson@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

Reread your post and then really consider if that rhetoric would get >50% of the vote. It’s just more academic jibberish that falls flat outside coastal cities.

[-] rodolfo@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

Any example at hand of these liberal democracies that hystorically always slide to fascism? What does imperial core mean?

[-] Alsephina@lemmy.ml 19 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Primarily referring to Germany and Italy's descent into fascism, and we're currently seeing this happen in France, and now in the US. These countries only see a shift to the left with an external force, like Scandinavian states giving concessions to the working class when the nearby USSR posed the threat of a good example — and by extension, the threat of a working class revolution; of course, these concessions are gradually being taken away now.

Imperial core countries refers to colonizer countries that now control financial institutions like the IMF and World Bank, and depend on the continued exploitation of former colonies.

I specify liberal democracies in imperial core countries because we have seen limited successes for the left outside it. Like Allende coming to power in Chile (before being overthrown in a US-backed coup 2 years later), or now Lula and Claudia coming to power in Brazil and Mexico.

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[-] Cowbee@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

It's not that liberal democracies always slide, specifically, it's that Capitalist states always slide, and this is heightened by being in the Global North. Global North countries brutally explioit Global South countries via Imperialism, by relying on vastly under-paid labor and selling it in the Global North for higher prices.

Fascism is Capitalism in decay, the violent immune system employed by the Capitalist class. A great work on fascism is Blackshirts and Reds. I can provide a longer Marxism intro reading list if you'd like, but Blackshirts is a great start.

I also recommend Imperialism, the Highest Stage of Capitalism, and the famous Yellow Parenti Speech (a small excerpt here.

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[-] joostjakob@lemmy.world 5 points 5 months ago

Even here in Europe where there are genuine left wing parties, where there's proportional representation, where we have mistly functional education, labour class people are voting for folks who blame poor people and immigrants for everything that goes wrong. I think part of the blame is with tabloid style media and social media magnifying formerly fringe opinion. Just saying that having a real alternative for the populist right, might not be enough.

[-] RubicTopaz@lemmy.world 60 points 5 months ago

The most relevant paragraph imo

Bernie’s coalition was filled with the exact type of voters who are now flocking to Donald Trump: Working class voters of all races, young people, and, critically, the much-derided bros. The top contributors to Bernie’s campaign often held jobs at places like Amazon and Walmart. The unions loved him. And— never forget — he earned the coveted Joe Rogan endorsement that Trump also received the day before the election this year. It turns out, the Bernie-to-Trump pipeline is real! While that has always been used as an epithet to smear Bernie and his movement, with the implication that social democracy is just a cover for or gateway drug to right wing authoritarianism, the truth is that this pipeline speaks to the power and appeal of Bernie’s vision as an effective antidote to Trumpism. When these voters had a choice between Trump and Bernie, they chose Bernie. For many of them now that the choice is between Trump and the dried out husk of neoliberalism, they’re going Trump.

[-] geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml 41 points 5 months ago

Yes but then the DNC would not be able to please their donor class. Which is far more important than winning.

[-] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 21 points 5 months ago

Last I saw something like 55% of the populace looks like it voted for trump. In these crazy pants times I do not see bernie winning.

[-] SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 67 points 5 months ago

55% of the vote, 20% of the population. Democrats stayed home.

[-] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 16 points 5 months ago

55% of the electorate who care which is sorta more sad sounding.

[-] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Many who voted democrat in 2020 voted republican in 2024 because the billionaire class convinced them democrats caused inflation when democrats said they would tax billionaires.

Imagine what they would do to Bernie.

[-] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 26 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

No, blue voters didn't vote for Republicans. This is the second thread I see you posting this misinformation when it's not remotely true outside of ONE demographic (Latino men). Left of centre democrats just didn't show up to the polls (and they had no reason to, tbh).

You can look up the turnout numbers yourself, it's literally headline news.

Edit: nvm, you seem to have it out for Bernie and think Biden/Harris was a fine ticket even when Dems were asking Biden to step down. I see your game.

[-] UsernameHere@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)
[-] sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 15 points 5 months ago

Ok bro, and what about the DEMOCRATS that didn't vote this time around??

How did Harris lose 10-15 million votes + Trump lost 2 million votes from 2020 if EVERY INDEPENDENT from 2020 voted Trump?

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[-] Arcturus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 31 points 5 months ago

What no political theory does to a mfer

Trump offers a fake anti-establishment for people who are rightfully mad at the state. Only a working class party can direct that towards actual improvement.

Problem is obviously that a working class party wouldn't be funded and backed by billionaire capitalists the way the duopoly is; that's the point of liberal "democracies" — keeping capitalist parties in power.

[-] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 12 points 5 months ago

This is why citizens united is basically the worst thing to come out of the millenia. So far. In the US at least.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 23 points 5 months ago

I’m not impressed by this analysis.

  • It doesn’t account for those who stayed home.
  • It doesn’t account those who would have voted for Sanders instead of Trump if that option were actually available to them.
  • Who did they think would be excited to volunteer to canvass for Democratic genocidaires? The DNC knowingly forfeited their ground game.
[-] HubertManne@moist.catsweat.com 6 points 5 months ago

I really cannot see how anyone who would vote for trump would vote for sanders. its like apples and poison ivy. I don't get those who don't vote in a democracy either. I hate living in this eroding time period but way the hell glad to be living when democracy is considered the standard form of government. On tope of it we get to vote for the office, and get to vote for people to run for the office, and can sign signatures to get people on the ballot to run for office. I feel like people really don't have a good sense of human history.

[-] davel@lemmy.ml 20 points 5 months ago
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[-] Orbituary@lemmy.world 10 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

You are not intelligent or informed. 20% voted him in. 55% of the people who voted comes out to about 40% of the eligible voters nationally.

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[-] Moah 17 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Most likely the DNC would have sabotaged him like Labour sabotaged Jeremy Corbin

[-] AntiOutsideAktion@lemmy.ml 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Yeah that's the subtext of the headline. Or should be if it isn't the author's intent. This shouldn't be understood as an endorsement of social liberalism, but as a denunciation of the system as a way of obtaining good outcomes.

[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 17 points 5 months ago

He should found a new party based on his moral and ethical values. First, take over Vermont government, after that let's see. He's the only politician I know whou could pull this one in the American scene. He's already independent and representing much more than Vermont.

[-] MutilationWave@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I'm down, but he's just so old. With his only heir apparent being AOC. People don't like her nearly as much despite basically identical policy proposals. I wonder why?

I've said this before but at this point I think our only hope is the destruction of the Republican party so Democrats are the new conservatives. This way a progressive party could arise.

Or get rid of first past the post voting and the electoral college. But that seems harder somehow.

Or, honestly, this is the end and there is no hope left.

[-] selokichtli@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago

This is why he should do it now. It's his ideas the ones founding the party, not him. This is still one right moment, the Democrats are in crisis and the people opposed to Trump feel strayed. Meanwhile, the Republican party is raving on their victory, but we all know Trump will fuck it up as soon as he is in charge the next year, leaving people disenchanted.

[-] x00z@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

despite basically identical policy proposals

You don't really have this problem when you vote for political parties instead of presidents.

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[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 7 points 5 months ago

We already have like 5 more. Why wouldn't he join greens or communists or peace and freedom or another?

[-] RubicTopaz@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I don't get it. He seems to understand the dems will never be a working-class party. Why's he still in there instead of an actual socialist org like the PSL or FRSO?

[-] Arelin@lemmy.zip 6 points 5 months ago

Fear for his life, probably. He seems to be popular enough to give those parties a momentum that would make him a target of both the capitalist parties.

Black Panther party members — including its leader — were killed by the FBI. A genuine threat to capitalist rule will naturally have to face these threats.

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 4 points 5 months ago

Because Greens take insane amounts of donations from right wing donors, don't have any issues getting investments in big oil, don't do anything outside of election years, have hardly any positions in actual government (4 mayors, 17 council board members across states and not even all of them are actually are, that's being generous). The Green Party in its current state is quite literally a scam and should not be supported.

The other ones you mentioned are fine.

[-] jagged_circle@feddit.nl 4 points 5 months ago

Sounds like you're just spewing propaganda from the Dems

[-] averyminya@beehaw.org 3 points 5 months ago

The Green Party having no political candidates in meaningful elected positions is propaganda?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Green_politicians_who_have_held_office_in_the_United_States

Okay.

https://www.opensecrets.org/political-action-committees-pacs/green-party-of-the-us/C00370221/donors/2024

Unrelated, just more mega donors with names https://www.morningstar.com/news/marketwatch/20240618164/meet-the-10-biggest-megadonors-in-the-2024-election-cycle-so-far

And forgive me for thinking that the Leader of the Green Party should probably not have investments in the oil industry and Home Depot, index/retirement fund or not. If I can reallocate my inherited investments, the leader of the Green Party can too.

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[-] Floon@lemmy.ml 9 points 5 months ago

Bernie couldn't win when it was just Democrats deciding amongst themselves.

The Democrats ran Bernie before, during a time that was much more favorable for a progressive candidate. Only then, his name was George McGovern and he got beat like a rented mule.

Progressives need to learn how few people in this country are willing to consider the notion of the possibility of thinking about letting their daughters date a progressive, much less elect one President. It's not enough to be right, if you're fucking stupid about the citizens of this country.

[-] forgotmylastusername@lemmy.ml 5 points 5 months ago

Something I've realized about the post mortem takes is that peoples opinions on what went wrong is often just the laundry list of things they wanted and didn't get.

So the candidate wasn't perfect enough for them and if candidate just did all that well enough for me then it would have been a victory. Easy peasy. Too bad they aren't the entire electorate.

Seems only natural in an era of heightened partisanship. It's not even left-right but divisions among factions within. Why is everyone ignoring the strong anti-communist sentiment among Latino populations. If Harris lost that by surprisingly large margins campaigning more center than anything then a proper left candidate would have even worse numbers.

[-] ApexHunter@lemmy.ml 3 points 5 months ago

If this is how he felt the last year, he's just as culpable as all of the other fucks who stayed home and didn't vote. Fuck him and his Monday morning quarterbacking.

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[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 3 points 5 months ago

The republican party and adjacent is mostly white nationalists, what would make you think that they would switch to voting for a Jewish person? He would have unfortunately lost.

[-] tenchiken@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 points 5 months ago
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this post was submitted on 07 Nov 2024
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