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submitted 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago) by Blaze@feddit.org to c/fedimemes@feddit.uk

Context

The main arguments for people to defederate are

  • "Embrace, extend, and extinguish" strategy: https://ploum.net/2023-06-23-how-to-kill-decentralised-networks.html
  • A potential federation with Threads (should Thread decide to implement it) would overwhelm Lemmy/Mbin/Piefed with millions of users (compared to the 40k monthly current active users), transforming those platforms into a threaded version of Facebook
  • Defederating preventively costs nothing

LW stance: https://lemmy.world/post/1274909?scrollToComments=true

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[-] Voyajer@lemmy.world 138 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

I have yet to see any threads content anyway.

[-] Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world 54 points 2 weeks ago

Exactly. I still don't know what the whole kerfuffle is about.

[-] spankmonkey@lemmy.world 42 points 2 weeks ago

One concern is that since threads has a massive userbase and similar volume of content, it is basically a full reservoir and when it starts to federate content it will be like the dam bursting. Even if there is a need for a user on lemmy.world to do something to start federating content, like subscribing to communities, but all it would take is a bot that subscribes to a bunch of popular content to both fill the All feed and prompt a massive number of API calls.

If the hardware is up to the task, the other concern is the threads content overwhelming existing communities, and since a bunch of meta content is bot driven and malicious that would be a crazy amount of moderation that is likely needed to keep it from causing issues and driving away the existing userbase.

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[-] sharkfucker420@lemmy.ml 31 points 2 weeks ago

Lemmy is niche and therefore is heavily populated by techies but more specifically lemmy is open source so these techies are specifically the type who like open source stuff. Threads and the corporation responsible for it have a financial incentive to oppose open source projects like this. So the community most ideologically tied to lemmy want nothing to do with it. They want to preserve their space that they have made as free of the influences of capital as possible. The very existence of threads is a threat.

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[-] ZILtoid1991@lemmy.world 20 points 2 weeks ago

The best if you don't have to. If you thought Twitter's nonexistent moderation was bad, then get ready for Meta's moderation.

People can post trans suicide memes, people can post outright hate speech, no action. Call a "moderate conservative" a "mean person", racist, etc., action within 24 hours, multiple-day ban.

[-] scott@authorship.studio 12 points 2 weeks ago

@ZILtoid1991

If you thought Twitter’s nonexistent moderation was bad, then get ready for Meta’s moderation.

To be fair, there is no global moderation on the fediverse. Anyone can start up their own instance with their own rules, or lack thereof. But that is also a plus since you or your server administrator decide how to moderate content, rather than depending on the decisions of some mega company's moderation team.

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[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 17 points 2 weeks ago

So it's working.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 32 points 2 weeks ago

I'm pretty sure LW is trying to be Threads, or at least grow into some version of it. Why is, as you said, a mystery.

https://fedihosting.foundation/lw-team/#org-chart

[-] pelespirit@sh.itjust.works 15 points 2 weeks ago

I have 2 possible theories on that:

  1. They want the federation to be all encompassing. Like a giant forum for corporations, governments and the common people. Sort of like a FOSS mall with a post office, community center and library included.

  2. They're ran and/or owned ultimately by a Reddit or Threads type company.

[-] PhilipTheBucket@ponder.cat 10 points 2 weeks ago

Someday I will write my master list of unfounded Fediverse conspiracy theories.

I was going to say that I didn't have one for lemmy.world, so that would be a good addition, but I realized that I do: LW is being run by the Russians, as a cheap way to get a solid foothold over a new sector of social media, and that's why there was that moment in time where Youtube was giving out Russian-language descriptions for all the videos that got posted to LW.

I have no evidence and it seems hilariously unlikely, but so does "Our Dutch sysadmin decided to host the server in Finland of all places, and then on top of that, Google decided to start handing out Russian-language descriptions when people accessed Youtube from Finland. And then, as soon as we found out about it, Google suddenly fixed it for us."

My theory would also explain why the admin team makes certain perplexing decisions like pushing so hard to make a safe space for the disinfo accounts and then forbidding anyone from calling them out.

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 5 points 2 weeks ago

The Finns and Russians are famously chummy.

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[-] Five@slrpnk.net 27 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Threads.net federation status on major Lemmy instances based on blocklist info:

Also, in memoriam:

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 24 points 2 weeks ago

At the moment, it is more a gesture of support for our micro-blogging cousins but still...

[-] ohellidk@sh.itjust.works 16 points 2 weeks ago

sheesh, must be bad if even hexbear is doing it!

[-] Fitik@fedia.io 13 points 2 weeks ago

Thread does not currently federate with link aggregators (Lemmy, Mbin, Piefed)

It federates with MBin, recently Fedia defederated Threads, but before that I could follow and interact with Threads accounts, and it actually worked

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 5 points 2 weeks ago

Thanks for the clarification

[-] AchtungDrempels@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago

Is it really a mystery? Ruud explained why this has not been done, why don't you add his explanation to the context here? Don't tell me you have never heard about it.

[-] finitebanjo@lemmy.world 12 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Its possible to convince me to move to another instance if anybody can recommend one with the following:

  • Anti-Tankie sentiment/rules/regulation (fuck those fake communists flooding the feed with spam 24/7)

  • Fairly active community

  • General use instance, not one with a specific agenda

But otherwise I guess I'd probably just stop using lemmy altogether when threads hits World.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 16 points 2 weeks ago

Sopuli.xyz has blocked both lemmygrad and hexbear. You can block lemmy.ml in your user settings, that should set you up.

About the active community, not sure what you mean, as exporting and importing your settings would keep you subscribed to the same communities that your current account, and sopuli is large enough to have the same All feed than LW

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[-] Sunshine@lemmy.ca 11 points 2 weeks ago

We gotta avoid meta collecting data on the users of the fediverse.

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 23 points 2 weeks ago

Bruh you know you can literally just download any lemmy data right now?

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 12 points 2 weeks ago

That's why I didn't mention data collection in the reasons. Everything here can be parsed by thousands of instances. The issue is the EEE, and flooding the platform with millions of users coming from Facebook

[-] TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world 8 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Literally all they would have to do is spin up a generic instance with like, one subscriber, federate, and then just kick back and wait. But yeah, fuck threads. .World should de-federate.

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[-] bear_cube@sh.itjust.works 8 points 2 weeks ago

We should be careful after looking at what happened with XMPP

[-] hOrni@lemmy.world 7 points 2 weeks ago

A great reminder, that I will never understand how this site works. Isn't lemmy.world like the main page? That's what shows up on my Sync app.

[-] gila@lemm.ee 29 points 2 weeks ago

Lemmy is like email, and lemmy.world is like your email provider. Sync is like Outlook

[-] Emperor@feddit.uk 14 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

lemmy.world is like Hotmail - an early adopter that did rather well.

[-] archomrade@midwest.social 14 points 2 weeks ago

No, .world is not anything like a 'main page'. It's just the largest "instance".

Lemmy isn't even really a site, it's more like what email is - a data exchange protocol.

You see mostly .world content because you share that domain, and they've "blocked" a lot of other domains.

You can make an account at any-other instance and see a lot of other content. Lemmy.world has "blocked" (defederated) with a lot of instances, so you're not seeing everything.

Sync is just an app that lets you view your account content (similar to how gmail the app lets you view your email content).

[-] Nougat@fedia.io 6 points 2 weeks ago

~~Lemmy~~ ActivityPub

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 11 points 2 weeks ago

Different websites show the same content.

https://lemm.ee/c/fediverse@lemmy.world shows the community we are in from another instance, Lemm.ee.

There is no "main page", different instances host different communities and users, but everything is still connected by default (sometimes instance disagree and prefer to block each other)

[-] FlihpFlorp@lemm.ee 9 points 2 weeks ago

I’m not tech savvy but this image from the welcome to lemm.ee post helped me understand it way better than the email example

[-] Ardyssian@sh.itjust.works 5 points 2 weeks ago

So if lemmy.world has defederated with many other instances, would that mean that clicking 'All' in the example provided won't show content from those instances if your account comes from lemmy.world?

[-] InquisitiveApathy@lemm.ee 5 points 2 weeks ago

Yes. You will not see content from an instance that has defederated your home instance or that your home instance has taken action and defederated from.

[-] Blaze@feddit.org 4 points 2 weeks ago

Correct. You can't see hexbear.net content from LW

[-] fjordbasa@lemmy.world 4 points 2 weeks ago* (last edited 2 weeks ago)

Lemmy.world is one of many lemmy instances. Any Lemmy instance will show posts on their “all” page from instances they’re federated with. Generally, you can subscribe to and comment in federated communities.

Depending on your viewer/app, you’ll see the instance following an @ sign. For example, username johndoe1234@sh.itjust.works means that account is on the sh.itjust.works instance. Similar for communities.

May have missed some finer points but that’s generally how it works.

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this post was submitted on 05 Nov 2024
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