380
He gets a free pass
(lemmy.world)
There's evidence he was trying to prevent worse things from happening. He hid the last dragons, he joined a extremist group, he was WAY ahead of Azula capturing him, his prison escape plan was likely a long term thought process he already had. Iroh was never going to be fire lord.
He was first in line to be Fire Lord until his son died.
I don't think Iroh would have been as ruthless as his brother. But he did see conquest as a sort of duty.
But then his son died, and he realized that it was all pointless.
I want them to dive into exactly that in NATLA, more than they already have.
Maybe it's just me, but I'm really enjoying it as an 'AU' that explores some off-screen scenes and implications from the original. I think people are getting too hung up on it being 'not ATLA' (just like LoK).
I keep meaning to give that a try, but after Shyamalan... No. Just the memory of that is enough to give pause.
Also, Netflix live action has been... well, never quite as good as the original. They often don't lean into the genre as hard as they need to.
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People change, we should all learn to see people for who they are, not who they were.
I'm not sure siege is considered a war crime. Isn't that just standard medieval warfare?
The other nations wouldn't see it that way.
There's no central authority, but it's not a machiavellian free-for-all like medeival Europe. The rest of the world was rather unhappy with the Fire Nation's aggression, even in light if the world's long history of warfare. He would be tried for that, no doubt.
And his reputation/nickname is subtext for crimes he did commit but that the cartoon couldn't spell out.
No, it's not a war crime that I can find, however we can attribute harm caused to civilians through these actions, such as starvation due to supply lines cut off. So he did some vile shit, had a moment where he realized the error in his ways, then did everything in his power to make things better.
Except there no evidence of starvation in Ba Sing Se. After all, there was so little impact that the citizens could be convinced that there was no war.
As to supply lines, earth benders cannot be locked in by a siege. They can create tunnel networks with a literal wave of the hand.
So you're inventing crimes that didn't exist.
I mean really the existence of war crimes relies on the existence of treaties between the nations defining what those crimes are. Gonna guess the Fire Nation was not a signatory.
The Nazis weren't signatories to the Nuremberg charter, yet they were judged by it. So there is precedent for judging war crimes without pre-existing law.
I'm also not exactly sure how international law works in a world that only has ~~four~~three countries.
Maybe it's like original sin, and any general in the same army that destroyed 25% of the world's nations, is automatically a war criminal?
Depends on the culture The Japanese viewed siege tactics as cowardly and armies at the gates would deliver food and supplies to the people in the walls. Ba Sing Se was able to convince it's citizens there wasn't even a war going on, I don't think they were starving or being killed with siege weapons.
The source you provided makes clear that sieges are lawful provided non-combatants aren't affected (so starving civilians, barring humanitarian aid, etc. makes a siege unlawful). Furthermore, it states that sieges where non-combatants are affected were lawful prior to the 20th century.
In the context of ATLA, there's not really enough known about the geopolitics of the world to properly gauge whether or not besieging a city is a war crime. The frequency of sieges in the show (North Pole, Ba Sing Se) can't be used as an argument for their legality since they're undertaken by a state that is known for mistreating prisoners of war, disrespecting geopolitical boundaries, and so on. Regardless, you can't judge the Avatar universe by real world law.
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Varrick bombed buildings and tried to kidnap a president to start a war for profit and got away with it too.
He did it as a capitalist though so it's no big deal.
If Varrick were real, he would have blown himself up because he had a hissy fit, threw his briefcase at the wall, but forgot there was a bomb in there.
A war crime according to... Who? Is there some treaty or convention that happened? Is there some customary international law that he violated? I can't find the Hague anywhere on any maps in this universe but maybe I missed something.
There is no war
I like how NATLA goes into his "war crimes" more.
And Lu Ten's funeral... I cried over that scene.
There's a lot to not like about live-action atla, but I was there for all the Iroh/Zuko scenes. Kinda like Book 1 of ATLA, to be honest.
I agree, I love the change they made to include the fact that Zuko's soldiers where the same ones he spoke out against sacrificing.
Maybe not war crimes but what he did with June isn't great either
He apologies for that in the comics, though many of the panels feel OOC.
Which comic is that one from?
The Bounty Hunter and the Tea Brewer
https://old.reddit.com/r/TheLastAirbender/comments/1fqu620/iroh_apologizes_to_june/
I keep forgetting that they're still releasing new ones. Cheers!
New novels keep coming too!
The novels are great, TBH way better than the comics.
100% I really digged the Kyoshi ones and you reminded me to pick up the Yangchen ones again.
They should have gone back and edited the show rather than do this. The Iroh and June thing was way out of character for Iroh to begin with. Likely some writer that was unfamiliar with the show and took too much inspiration from Master Roshi.
Keep in mind this was 2005.
this post was submitted on 29 Oct 2024
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