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submitted 2 days ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

A Wisconsin woman accused of stabbing her classmate to please horror character Slender Man more than a decade ago asked a judge again Friday to release her from a psychiatric hospital.

Morgan Geyser, who is now 22 years old, filed a petition with Waukesha County Circuit Judge Michael Bohren seeking her release from the Winnebago Mental Health Institute. The petition marks the third time in the last two years she has asked Bohren to let her out of the facility. 

She withdrew her first petition two months after filing it in 2022. Bohren denied her second request this past April, saying she remains a risk to the public.

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[-] CaptPretentious@lemmy.world 78 points 2 days ago

A lot of people in this thread really down playing or overlooking she willingly stabbed someone 19 times.

[-] Hupf@feddit.org 36 points 1 day ago

Carl, that kills people!

[-] Dasus@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago
[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 63 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

For all of you saying this girl is a lost cause, I suggest you look into the Parker-Hulme murder. It was turned into the film Heavenly Creatures.

Two girls murdered one of the girls' mothers. It was a premeditated murder. The mother was not some horribly abusive woman, the kids had developed an incredibly unhealthy fantasy life which was replacing reality for them and they got separated. There was queerphobia involved, but it was the 1950s so that's not surprising, but the fantasy thing was a much bigger issue.

During their relationship, the girls invented their own personal religion, with their own ideas on morality. They rejected Christianity and worshipped their own saints, envisioning a parallel dimension called The Fourth World, essentially their version of Heaven. The Fourth World was a place that they felt they were already able to enter occasionally, during moments of spiritual enlightenment. By Parker's account, they had achieved this spiritual enlightenment because of their friendship.

Anyway, they decided to murder Hulme's mother so they could stay together and ended up both in prison. They were older than this woman was at the time they committed their murder.

Both were released after a five years in prison.

Neither murdered again.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parker%E2%80%93Hulme_murder_case

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 12 points 1 day ago

This is also why conservatives rail against things like Dungeons and Dragons.

[-] vxx@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Dungeon and Dragon players actually learn to follow rules.

Homebrew players are obviously satanists /s

[-] pyre@lemmy.world 11 points 1 day ago

well then they should do something about the Bible first

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 7 points 1 day ago

No, but you see, that’s different. Trust me, (wink).

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 42 points 2 days ago

Also, America’s extreme sentence lengths have not been found to reduce recidivism. I don’t like prisons in general, but in particular I hate that we seem to not give half a shit if the harm we authorize them to do actually improves anything, especially before allowing them to do more harm. This is especially true when we’re talking about someone who successfully pled insanity, which is really fucking difficult actually

I hope this woman gets the treatment she needs then is released and commits no more crime.

[-] InverseParallax@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

I mean yeah, but this isn't a statistical sample, we should have meaningful data to give us recidivism rates for different crimes.

Sometimes the damage is deep, sometimes it's readily curable. Hard to tell which without work.

[-] youngalfred@lemm.ee 146 points 2 days ago

So she was 12 when she did it, but is still a danger to others 10 years later if I'm reading correctly.
Was the psychiatric hospital meant to rehabilitate her?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 65 points 2 days ago

Was the psychiatric hospital meant to rehabilitate her?

You're cute.

This is America.

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 90 points 2 days ago

Was the psychiatric hospital meant to rehabilitate her?

If possible, otherwise keep her away from pointy items. Working in psychiatry years ago, I've met people for whom their psychiatric diagnosis was chronic, and whom you could dope all you wanted, but their psychosis never retreated. All you could do was keep them from hurting themselves or others.

Sometimes we need a way to shield individuals from the general public, without it actually being a punishment. Lady in the story sounds like an example.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Being put in a criminal psychiatric facility for life doesn't sound like "without it actually being a punishment" to me.

Especially not in the U.S.

[-] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world 23 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

It depends, I worked in a similar place and the people there lived in relative comfort. Obviously it's going to be a sad situation regardless, as even in the best of settings they no longer have freedom. but to some of the people in there they preferred it. Many of them had their own collections of books and even some video games and the like in their rooms and they could do things like working at the canteen to occupy their time otherwise. For someone with very severe mental issues, living somewhere that keeps you away from the world and makes sure you're fed and relatively safe can be preferable.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 27 points 2 days ago

I mean sure, but at 12 years old you cannot possibly be a lost cause I would think, there is still so much development going on.

[-] groet@feddit.org 44 points 2 days ago

That is like saying a 12 year old should be able to be healed from being quadriplegic because they are still growing. Some medical conditions are for live (at our current medical knowledge) and it doesn't matter if they are "physical" or "mental".

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

There’s a huge difference between neurological growth and limb growth. Now if you could point to the physical damage on her brain and display evidence it can’t heal I might agree with you. But as it stands all we know is an atrocious act and our own cultural biases that make it easy and convenient to say that a 12 year old committing such an act is irreparably broken.

And even if the causative disorder is irreparable, many psychological disorders allow for workarounds and treatments that can prevent the catastrophic scenarios.

[-] nelly_man@lemmy.world 9 points 1 day ago

It's not physical damage to her brain. She has schizophrenia and developed symptoms of it at an abnormally young age. She didn't have a clear grasp on what was and wasn't real and that ultimately led her to stab her friend nineteen times. It's clearly a condition that has presented itself as very dangerous for her, and it needs to be under control before she can be released.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago

That's a false equivalence

[-] ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world 24 points 2 days ago

Just because their brains are still developing doesn't mean they aren't developing wrong.

If the foundation is fucked the whole thing is gonna be fucked no matter how much time you give it.

Some people are unfortunately born with fucked foundations be they physical or mental.

[-] TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world 26 points 2 days ago

It's up to the medical practitioners to decide.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

Sure you can. Every psychopath, sociopath, narcissist was that when they were 12. They went on to do bad things later. What makes this person unusual is the lack of impulse control.

[-] Klear@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 day ago* (last edited 1 day ago)

Nowhere near every sociopath goes on to do bad things. Most of them are normal people living among us.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 1 points 21 hours ago

It's notable that there was a story roughly 15 years ago about a psychology researcher who put people into MRIs to scan their brains. He found out that psychopaths have different development than the general public. He put himself in for funsies and found that he has the same structural issues. When he asked his family about it, they confirmed that they had always known he was a psychopath.

To your point, you can absolutely be a functional member of society with one of these disorders, but the likelihood that you can't be is also heavily increased.

[-] TheEighthDoctor@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

Saying every psycopath was like that when he was 12 is not the same as saying every 12 year old with psychopathic behaviours went on to do bad things.

This girl went on to have a normal life after getting treated, for example: https://youtu.be/UNMUFlpIero

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[-] Dainterhawk999@lemmy.world 6 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Just a question... Are there any mental health issues which cannot be treated? As you have worked in psychiatry, any input will be highly appreciated.

[-] djsoren19@yiffit.net 14 points 2 days ago* (last edited 2 days ago)

Psychologist here, depends on what you mean by treated. Most mental illnesses aren't like a cold where you're able to take some medication and get rid of it, they're more like a chronic back injury that you learn to manage. For most people, some combination of therapy and chemical treatment is sufficient to allow them to live a life where their mental health is managed. There are people whom chemical treatment doesn't work on, sometimes because of unhealthy brain chemistry, and who are unwilling or unable to participate in therapy. Unfortunately for these people, there's not much that can be done for them short of a miracle.

[-] Dainterhawk999@lemmy.world 3 points 1 day ago

Thank You for such a exhaustive reply... Treated meant can it be like a pill based solution... But as you mentioned it doesn't work that way

[-] Valmond@lemmy.world 18 points 2 days ago

Schizophrenia can be untreatable.

Fachism sometimes too. \j

[-] TrousersMcPants@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

I worked (admittedly as a custodian, so not an expert at all) in close contact with people who had antipersonality disorder. These were people who had been convicted of sexual assault and had served a sentence then had been deemed unfit to return to society. I don't believe any of them could get any amount of treatment that would have made them truly safe around others, even if they behaved well on their wards.

Mental illness can almost never truly be cured, and some people can be simply too dangerous to be allowed complete freedom. It's sad to think about, but I think until we have a better understanding of the mind and how to better treat people with issues like this, it's better that certain people stay "locked up" as it were. So long as they are given humane treatment and accommodations, of course.

[-] Dainterhawk999@lemmy.world 2 points 1 day ago

The mind or brain is so intricately wired that understanding it a quite a big task... But hope so one day medical research can bring solution to mental health problems... Till then fingers crossed

[-] BigDanishGuy@sh.itjust.works 3 points 1 day ago

Even though three others have chimed in, as OP I'm gonna give it a go as well.

First off, I'm definitely not an expert. My job was mainly to stay with people who had been constrained to their bed, using leather straps. Other times to make sure the patient had as much freedom as possible, without doing certain things. So pretty low level stuff, like talking, minding my own business, and occasionally dodging fecal matter (not figuratively!)

I met adults who had been psychotic since their early teens. And I met people who were admitted on account of a bad reaction to drugs, mainly marijuana, resulting in them being aggressive and delusional. Then the next week they would be calm and rational, behaving like you and me.

I can't tell you what can be treated, and what can't. But I can tell you that I've met people who did stop being psychotic for the rest of their life. And I can tell you that far far most patients were able to, periodically, live somewhat ordinary lives after getting help.

[-] youngalfred@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

I'd recommend reading this article that was linked in the AP article which has more details about the sentence and following appeals:
https://apnews.com/article/morgan-geyser-slender-man-stabbing-release-petition-09a2537704c926675c39349a45f9bfde

[-] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 10 points 2 days ago

Probably. But this is not the first time something like this happened

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 1 points 1 day ago

The point is specifically to get them to the point where they can stand trial.

[-] youngalfred@lemm.ee 5 points 1 day ago

She did stand trial - she was sentenced.

[-] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 52 points 2 days ago

Damn, that was 10 years ago?

[-] PineRune@lemmy.world 35 points 2 days ago

I remember when this happened. I think it's wild that she is still being detained for it.

[-] drunkpostdisaster@lemmy.world 29 points 2 days ago

It happens. I know a weird amount of people who stabbed someone as a kid. Two of them went to the same institution at different times and they both told told me about a girl was really tall, 6 foot at age 13, who had stabbed a few staffers with shanks and almost started a number of fires.

Apparently the staff told them she would never have a moment of freedom in her life.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 14 points 2 days ago

Did the staff tell her she would never have a moment of freedom in her life before the stabbing and the fires started? Because that might explain them.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 11 points 2 days ago

So many people like to ignore that mentally ill people are rarely acting out just to act out. Yes it happens, but often there’s a line of reasoning, including emotional disregulation and failure to appropriately escalate. Take someone with those traits, lock them up, and add distress to them (especially when you’re frustrated at their behavior) and they’re prone to do whatever they think they can.

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[-] DocMcStuffin@lemmy.world 9 points 2 days ago

Yeah, I remember this one too. Going back and reading one of the articles from when it happened, and I just don't have words for it.

https://www.cnn.com/2014/06/03/justice/wisconsin-girl-stabbed/index.html

[-] Shawdow194@fedia.io 9 points 2 days ago

According to the criminal complaint, the suspects had been planning the attack since February.

They first thought to kill the victim by placing duct tape over her mouth while she was sleeping and stabbing her in the neck, the complaint says.

Next, the plan was to kill her in a park bathroom where there was a floor drain that could make cleanup easier, it continued.

But, finally, the girls decided to carry out the attack in the park while playing a game of hide-and-seek, the complaint says.

When I was 12 I got into the occult pretty hard. Ouiji boards, deities, etc. Not one fleeting thought in my head was murder. These girls are dangerous.

[-] pjwestin@lemmy.world 8 points 1 day ago

You probably didn't have early-onset childhood schizophrenia. This girl was undiagnosed at the time and literally thought she was talking to Slender Man, as well as Severus Snape, unicorns, and ghosts. I'm not saying she should be released, but she's been in treatment for a decade, and she's requesting the court appoint an expert to evaluate her and make a recommendation about her release. Seems pretty reasonable to me.

[-] todd_bonzalez@lemm.ee 2 points 1 day ago

Wow, so you didn't have schizophrenia, and you didn't have the same problems as someone who did? Sounds about right, maybe you should understand what you're talking about before you open your dumb mouth.

[-] stoly@lemmy.world 4 points 1 day ago

Occult is not bad. Really terrible comparison.

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this post was submitted on 14 Oct 2024
277 points (100.0% liked)

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