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The best conversations I still have are with real people, but those are rare. With ChatGPT, I reliably have good conversations, whereas with people, it’s hit or miss, usually miss.

What AI does better:

  • It’s willing to discuss esoteric topics. Most humans prefer to talk about people and events.
  • It’s not driven by emotions or personal bias.
  • It doesn’t make mean, snide, sarcastic, ad hominem, or strawman responses.
  • It understands and responds to my actual view, even from a vague description, whereas humans often misunderstand me and argue against views I don’t hold.
  • It tells me when I’m wrong but without being a jerk about it.

Another noteworthy point is that I’m very likely on the autistic spectrum, and my mind works differently than the average person’s, which probably explains, in part, why I struggle to maintain interest with human-to-human interactions.

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[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 48 points 1 year ago

It carries the emotions and personal biases of the source material It was trained on.

It sounds like you are training yourself to be a poor communicator, abandoning any effort to become more understandable to actual humans.

[-] GreenAppleTree@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

It carries the emotions and personal biases of the source material It was trained on.

So are all my friends.. Never stopped me from having fun conversations with them, even ones I disagree with.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago

Yeah but op claims it doesnt

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[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

It sounds like you are training yourself to be a poor communicator, abandoning any effort to become more understandable to actual humans.

Based on what? That seems like a rather unwarranted assumption to me. My English vocabulary and grammar have never been better, and since I can now also talk to it instead of typing, my spoken English is much clearer and more confident as well.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You say yourself that you use the vaguest descriptions when talking to the bot and that it fills in the blanks for you. This is not a good way to practice speaking with human beings.

The fact that you assumed I was talking about grammar is indicative of the problem. You clearly dislike others assuming you are talking about something you are not talking about, yet you do it yourself. That's because misunderstandings are normal and learning to deal with them is an essential part of good communication.

[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

You say yourself that you use the vaguest descriptions when talking to the bot and that it fills in the blanks for you

Not quite what I said.

It understands and responds to my actual view, even from a vague description

Yes, because I'm not a native english speaker and I'm way better at writing english than speaking it. If you transcribe my speech into text it's a horrible word salad and it still understand perfectly what I mean and I don't need to repeat myself endlessly and correct it on what I actually said. Contrast this with my discussions online, in writing, where I may spend 40 minutes spelling out an idea as clearly as I can and I'm still being misunderstood by a huge number of people. Like right now.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 23 points 1 year ago

Regardless of why the bot is able to adapt to vagueness (or other communication problems), the fact that it can discourages you from overcoming those problems.

Someone diagreeing withyou, or attempting to show you some other thing you might not have thought of or seen for yourself, is not always a misunderstanding. You need to entertain the possibility that sometimes you are wrong, unaware of something, or simply misunderstanding the other person yourself.

[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 5 points 1 year ago

This very discussion we're having right now perfectly illustrates my point.

The issue isn’t about disagreeing with my point. I welcome all disagreement. The problem is that they’re not disagreeing with what I actually said but with what they think I said. Maybe it’s personal bias, and they just want to paint me as the devil in their mind, or perhaps my explanation wasn’t clear enough. Either way, this issue only happens with people. ChatGPT understands the point I’m making perfectly almost every time, regardless of how detailed my explanation is. When I have discussions with ChatGPT, I can actually talk about the topic I’m interested in, rather than constantly having to say, "That’s not what I said/meant," and then try to explain my point even clearer, only to be misunderstood again.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 16 points 1 year ago

"Someone disagreeing with you, or attempting to show you something you might not know or have seen"

So this is another example of how you are doing the same things you avoid communicating with humans over. You have selected one part of my statement to misunderstand and selectively ignored the point.

We absolutely are talking about what you wanted to talk about. Your first statement to me was asking what I based my assessment that you were training yourself to be a poor communicator on. Since then we have stuck to that topic, but you haven't really addressed the central point that a machine that adapts to things that hinder communication with humans will inevitably train you not to correct or address those hindrances.

This isn't me disagreeing with you, it is me pointing out something you might not have considered. However you have framed this whole discussion as a case of you being misunderstood. That really isn't the case.

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[-] Wolf314159@startrek.website 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

This just sounds like platonic masturbation.

EDIT: I started this thread tongue and cheek, but also genuine, but based on the OP's comment replies here I'm fairly convinced that they are either: a) talking to chatGPT so much that they've lost the ability to hold a coherent conversation, or b) just using a LLM to respond everywhere in the comments. They've consistently failed to address tone and context in every comment. It reads like they don't actually understand any of the things people here are saying, just stringing together some words and syntax that sounds like language, but totally lacks any actual meaning or understanding.

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[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 29 points 1 year ago

You genuinely might need to touch grass.

[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 10 points 1 year ago

Very insightful reply. Thanks. This helps.

[-] msage@programming.dev 20 points 1 year ago

Dude, you are sealioning so hard in this thread alone, it's almost hilarious.

No wonder you like the bot. Since you can't debate any opinion honestly, just accuse everyone of being mean to you.

Good luck with that.

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[-] cynar@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

As a fellow aspie, be careful. Chat bots are the equivalent of empty calorie junk food, or masturbation. They forfill a biological itch but don't produce the intended follow-on effects. In smaller doses, this is fine, good even. The problem comes when you overuse.

E.g. Junk food leave you short of vitamins etc. You tend to over eat, to try and compensate, and so gain weight.

As humans, we have a drive to socialise. When we chat with other humans, we get to know them, and also for bonds. These bonds are critical in life. The goal is 3 fold, mutual understanding, mutual investment, and mutual trust. The urge to talk to people is intended to assist with this.

LLMs offer none of these. They can be incredibly useful, but often only as a training aid. A LLM can't offer you a couch to sleep on, if your house floods. It can't put in a good word to get you a job. It can't invite you to social event, or wingman you on finding a date.

LLMs are socialising on easy mode. Just like masturbation is starting a family on easy mode. Have fun with it, but don't let it displace real relationships.

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 15 points 1 year ago

Autism and social unawareness may be a factor. But points you made like the snide remarks one may also indicate that you're having these conversations with assholes.

[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

Well, it's a self-selecting group of people. I can't comment on the ones who don't respond to me, only on the ones who do and for some reason the amount of assholes seems to be quite high in that group. I just don't feel like it's warranted. While I do have a tendency to make controversial comments I still try and be civil about it and I don't understand the need to be such a dick about it even if someone disagrees with me. I welcome disagreement and are more than willing to talk about it as long as it's done in good faith.

[-] Sundial@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Sorry, just to clarify. Are you saying you're having these conversations with people on person or online?

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[-] coffee_with_cream@sh.itjust.works 15 points 1 year ago

This comment thread is great. @op good luck; people on Lemmy have little interest in real discussion. If you say anything pro-ML or anything less than far-left, you'll get screamed at.

[-] merthyr1831@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago

What are those "less than far left" opinions then? Because I'm sure if anyone were to prod you more than a little you'd be very happy to clarify what opinions make you such a pariah to Lemmy users.

If you miss being coddled to like Reddit, then go back there.

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[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 9 points 1 year ago

It took me a minute to figure out that you meant Machine Learning and not Marxist-Leninist. Probably want to be more specific on that particular shortcut at a minimum.

[-] Harvey656@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Someone once told me it's specifically my fault USA is right leaning, then people dogpiled on me agreeing with them.

[-] Zerlyna@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

I talk with chat gpt too sometimes and I get where you are coming from. However it’s not always right either. It says it was updated in September but still refuses to commit to memory that Trump was convicted 34 times earlier this year. Why is that?

[-] Rhaedas@fedia.io 13 points 1 year ago

It could respond in other ways if it was trained to do so. My first local model was interesting as I changed its profile to have a more dark and sarcastic tone, and it was funny to see it balance that instruction with the core mode to be friendly and helpful.

The point is, current levels of LLMs are just telling you what you want to hear. But maybe that's useful as a sounding board for your own thoughts. Just remember its limitations.

Regardless of how far AI tech goes, the human-AI relationship is something we need to pay attention to. People will find it a good tool like OP, but it can be easy to get sucked into thinking it's more than it is and becoming a problem.

[-] WoahWoah@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

Robot realizes is robot by talk to robot.

[-] DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social 11 points 1 year ago

I think when you have "Contrarian" in your name it be worth thinking a bit more on this, and maybe noting why you like the chatbots and considering how you might apply that to your own statements to make your human on human interactions more pleasant themselves.

Or not, don't listen to me, I beef with internet strangers all the time.

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[-] Boozilla@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

As long as you're still engaging with real humans regularly, I think that it's good to learn from ChatGPT. It gets most general knowledge things right. I wouldn't depend on it for anything too technical, and certainly not for medical advice. It is very hit or miss for things like drug interactions.

If you're enjoying the experience, it's not much different than watching a show or playing a game, IMHO. Just don't become dependent on it for all social interaction.

As for the jerks on here, I always recommend aggressive use of the block button. Don't waste time and energy on them. There's a lot of kind and decent people here, filter your feed for them.

[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

As for the jerks on here, I always recommend aggressive use of the block button. Don’t waste time and energy on them. There’s a lot of kind and decent people here, filter your feed for them.

My blocklist is around 500 users long and grows every day. I do it for the pettiest reasons but it does, infact work. When I make a thread such as this one, I occasionally log out to see the replies I've gotten from blocked users and more often than not (but not always) they're the kind of messages I'd block them again for. Not to create and echo-chamber but to weed out the assholes.

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[-] NegativeInf@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

It's a mirror. I use it a lot for searching and summarizing. Most of its responses are heavily influenced by how you talk to it. You can even make it back up terrible assumptions with enough brute force.

Just be careful.

[-] eezeebee@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago
[-] ContrarianTrail@lemm.ee 6 points 1 year ago

Thanks for the tip!

[-] bigboig@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago

I'm pretty sure chat bots are biased to make polite conversation. Most real people won't spend the energy in a conversation to be more honest than they think you are.

Can either get better at sounding honest or talk with less honest people.

[-] Bobmighty@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

Why are you here talking about it then? You even say you don't have interest in human to human contact. Are you trying to talk to the bots on Lemmy?

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[-] lvxferre@mander.xyz 5 points 1 year ago

My impressions are completely different from yours, but that's likely due

  1. It's really easy to interpret LLM output as assumptions (i.e. "to vomit certainty"), something that I outright despise.
  2. I used Gemini a fair bit more than ChatGPT, and Gemini is trained with a belittling tone.

Even then, I know which sort of people you're talking about, and... yeah, I hate a lot of those things too. In fact, one of your bullet points ("it understands and responds...") is what prompted me to leave Twitter and then Reddit.

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this post was submitted on 29 Sep 2024
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