523
dumb cars will be worth their weight in gold soon
Just like how manual cars became anti theft.
My friend has his Kia broken into and started, but it’s a standard so they ditched it hahaha
That's if you can find one for an affordable price.
I got a decent manual for about $12k back in February. And it was one of three on the lot I was there to look at all around that price: A GTI, a WRX, and a Mini.
I went with the GTI
right before the used car market exploded i got my manual Subaru for $3400 when it was worth about 10-12k because of a misfire. yeah it just had the wrong spark plugs in it :p and it's about as dumb as they come. it has a radio, abs, and cruise control - no other driving assists or telemetry
The fun tax is real... except unllike the poster below, I was looking for a Base model Subaru and not the WRX (even though the WRX is a bucket list car)
Huh?
most car thiefs can't drive a manual transmission
Oh right in the USA there are mostly automatic cars
My car got dumbed for me because they killed the 3g network it was running on
Just because you can't use it doesn't mean a hacker can't. If someone discovered a vulnerability in the 3g handshake or encryption protocol, it could be an avenue for an RCE.
Especially when there are no security updates anymore. They should just rip out any possible receiver there is for mobile communication
Honestly if someone manages to figure that out I would want to know, that way I can finally use my cars remote start 😄
I wish, but most people don't know / care about this stuff, it's not going to really percolate into the public consciousness .
According to the dealership my car isn't worth it's weight grass clippings because it's too old.
lol it's not the dealers who will want them
The car will still work if you take the radio out or put a faraday cage around it, maybe that'll become a thing in the future, but that might fuck with the paid charging infrastructure for EVs. Doesn't impact gas.
Fucking wot
I have a '01 Citroen and I'm gonna run it to the ground. She needs a big overhaul now, but for a 190'000Km car my baby is still pretty good.
Yeah... fuck this shit. This is part of the reason I still drive a nearly 20 year old vehicle. It has features I want, and can't be stolen via fucking API calls. Absolute insanity.
I think Hyundai/Kia group has done unfathomable damage to their brands. Kia, despite being a budget brand, wants to be seen as a legit competitor to Toyota or at least Nissan. Their corner cutting with the immobilizers and the resulting "USB" theft shit was bad enough. Now this exploit.
FYI: From the article: “These vulnerabilities have since been fixed, this tool was never released, and the Kia team has validated this was never exploited maliciously.”
Well I wouldn't really trust kia, who released these gaping vulnerabilities and benefit the most from pretending ain't no big thing, with these statements
I’ve noticed a lot of issues showing up for the Kia and Hyundai cars security wise. I wonder if they’re having issues because there’s more focus on those cars or if their security is really that bad.
The Kia/Hyundai "challenge" where people were stealing their cars with a USB cord is because they opted not to include an immobilizer in US models for a decade. Every other car brand had them as standard. Kia even had them as standard in non US cars, but because the USA stupidly does not have a law about it, they opted to drastically reduce car security to save a few dollars per car.
This has made them prime targets, as people know they make bad security choices whenever they can save a buck.
So a bit of both, I expect.
I'm still amazed that immobilizers aren't a legal requirement in the USA, and that Kia would remove them from US models just to save a small amount of money.
Both probably. I’m sure a lot of cars have problems like this, but they just haven’t been found and there are already known vulnerabilities to focus on.
Don't look into South Korean web security. If their cars are as badly designed as their websites... Yikes
They went balls deep with the devil's spawn called nprotect.
This is the problem with digital serfdom, those lording it over us aren't perfect either. Not only should we be able to connect our cars to our own server, we should be able inspect provided server implementation to see if it's a bag of nails.
aren't perfect either
You misspelled "are fucking morons" :)
I know the majority of you hate Tesla, but security is something they do take more seriously. They even take part in pwn2own to help find vulnerabilities.
All auto manufacturers should be taking part in that.
Nothing like winning a car to get people to try and break into it publicly.
Edit: Also details on the 2025 event in January just recently announced. https://www.zerodayinitiative.com/blog/2024/9/23/announcing-pwn2own-automotive-for-2025
I have my money on Tesla being the first cloud-connected car (that phrase shouldn't exist) to be hacked and push a malicious firmware that will cause all cars to simultaneously activate self driving and to pull a hard left at a specific time (time bomb).
You should watch - Leave the World Behind
You might be right, but I don't think it'll be because their cars are the easiest to hack, it'll be because they have the most cars out there capable of doing this and it'd be more impactful attack if successful.
(edit: Also they'd be able to exert the most control on their cars with the software/sensors available today at scale. E.g they could more easily have the car drive around until it finds a pedestrian to hit)
(edit: Further, you can make the most changes to a Tesla as they have one of the more (or probably most) advanced OTA update capabilities)
They are definitely a prime target.
We hate Elon, Tesla is Ok
There's a portion that only hate Elon and not Tesla, but there's a lot of Tesla hate out there as well, and there has been since even before Elon publicly went off the deepend.
Some of that might be decisions that Elon made for Tesla, but it's still at Tesla.
Edit: but I will take your point and say my use of majority in my OP wasn't correct as the majority here is about Elon.
Why does a car need to be connected to the internet? A reliable rule of conduct in aeronautics is that systems which are deemed critical to safety are air gapped from the systems which are connected to the internet, so in the event that those systems are compromised by malware or hackers, the safety critical systems won't also be compromised.
Why is it seemingly taking automotive manufacturers so long to catch on to this principle? Before anyone mentions downloadable features, I do not see that as a means of justification. Like with videogames, if you're paying good money for a product, that product should already be finished by release. Hiding content that should already exist on a car is egregious and the normalisation of it incentivizes manufacturers to release vehicles that are incomplete and should not have been released in their current state.
This is my car, I have a stereo with entertainment features. My mileage, drive time, fuel economy, and anything related to the systems of the car, shows up on a separate display strip. To the best of my knowledge, the stereo cannot control the car in any way. Its just there to play music for me. I dread the day I have to replace this car. I may just buy an old pre-telemetry 4x4. The roads around here have gotten too bad for a hatchback anyway.
Yup, that's how it should be across the board. That's how it is with modern airliners. The redundancy of having each system be controlled by multiple computers is nullified if a hacker can get to control all of them, including the ones which are safety critical, just by hacking one. I honestly don't blame you, I love the internet but there really are situations where something really doesn't need to be connected to the internet.
Nice writeup
smiles contentedly in 2003 1.8T Jetta 5MT
Agreed. But I am getting more and more concerned we won't always be able to keep or buy an old car and avoid these pitfalls
I'm likely 3 to 6 years away from having to buy a new/used car and I don't think il be able to (or actually want) a 20 year old car
Yeah I have to replace the suction side AC line on mine and the OE part alone is about 350-400 and absolutely impossible to find 💀
this post was submitted on 26 Sep 2024
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