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[-] tacosanonymous@lemm.ee 101 points 4 months ago

The political satire doesn’t make me laugh so much as it crushes my spirit.

[-] Rozauhtuno 48 points 4 months ago

It's not even satire anymore.

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[-] nifty@lemmy.world 52 points 4 months ago

Civil rights for black people alienate the working class

—same satirical headline in the 50s

[-] TheSlad@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 months ago

You mean -probably real headline from the 50s

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 26 points 4 months ago

In less than ten years, I saw three of my cousins transition. This seemed to correspond neatly with trans-rights being mainstreamed as a social issue. Almost as though there are a lot of trans-people, many of whom were simply in the closet until the moment it became socially acceptable to be themselves.

[-] FinishingDutch@lemmy.world 6 points 4 months ago

There absolutely are a lot of them; it’s great that they finally feel comfortable to be themselves.

We saw the same thing with gay people. I’m an 80’s kid. When I was young, gay was something you saw on TV and in the movies. There ‘were no gay kids’ at the schools I attended. Because that was simply not something that you could admit to being.

Earlier this year I met a teen girl at work who casually mentioned her girlfriend. I was delighted that kids these days are comfortable enough in their own skin to just say that to someone they just met. That was not a thing when I was her age. It’s nice to see how far we’ve come.

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[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 23 points 4 months ago

Huh. I've met this guy on lemmy.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 20 points 4 months ago

I am working class. I have packed thousands of cases of avocados, boxed thousands of clothes in a factory, and only recently moved to teaching. Trans issues 100% do alienate everyone I work with. They are brought up by many different people to prove that white people are weak and perverted. This is coming from Sri Lankan garment workers, Vietnamese seamstresses and Mexican avocado packers.

[-] stormesp@lemm.ee 55 points 4 months ago

They are brought up by many different people to prove that white people are weak and perverted

L-o-L. You mean they are brought up by transphobic people to prove they are transphobic? Who in their fucking right mind use trans people as an excuse for working class issues?

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 9 points 4 months ago

All I said was the truth, do whatever toy want with it. I Didn't excuse anything.

[-] stormesp@lemm.ee 30 points 4 months ago

The only thing you are saying is that as there are transphobic people we should be ashamed of helping trans people because transphobic people can use that as a weapon against the working class problems. Im sorry but its the most stupid argument i have seen in a while. I am also working class, i have worked in a fast food restaurant, in a supermarket putting up the avocados you pack up and even picking up dog shit in the streets of my town, and i can tell you no one among 150+ people i worked with was worried about trans people in their working class problems.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 6 points 4 months ago

No argument was made. I am just responding with a true report from someone who has in fact met working clas speople, being one of them. They are on fact very transphobic,

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[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 6 points 4 months ago

What you're saying is right, but there's an important distinction between actively disparaging or hating on trans people and ignoring the issue.

The 150+ people have no issue with trans people, exactly as you say, bringing trans people to the forefront is not a problem but also not necessarily a priority or relevant in many of their minds. We can treat them like human beings who deserve protection and treatment like anyone else, but that doesn't mean putting them on a pedestal at every moment.

Even advocates take issue when a campaign shoehorns in a token trans person with no real role, it's very contrived. Progressives have to show that trans inclusivity matters to everyone by connecting it to themes and action that matter to a lot of people, not just tick boxes for each obligatory shout out to a marginalized group.

[-] NineMileTower@lemmy.world 33 points 4 months ago

"white people are weak and perverted"

White people have enslaved races of people and nearly eradicated others and now half of them are trying to be accepting of others and you won't have it?

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 months ago

I don't enter into it. This is a common opinion amongst people with whom I have worked.

[-] NineMileTower@lemmy.world 4 points 4 months ago

You pack fruit. You can't expect Mensa applicants.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Yeah, like a working class person.

[-] ChonkyOwlbear@lemmy.world 32 points 4 months ago

And how many trans people have you worked with?

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 11 points 4 months ago

Why would that matter? I am talking about working class peoples opinions.the answer is 1 roommate 1 lover 1 friend but it is irrelevant

[-] EldritchFeminity 16 points 4 months ago

Because the best way to fight bigotry is through exposure. This is why colleges and cities run more liberal - because that's where people are introduced to and live around a wider variety of people and cultures and realize "Oh, they're people, just like me."

I'm working class. I'm trans. I've never met a Mexican farmer. If I said that I find caring about the issues that Mexicans face alienating, would the fact that I've never even met a Mexican matter? It absolutely would.

The fact that none of the people that you work with have probably ever known a single trans person is very important to how they've formed their opinions.

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[-] mashbooq@infosec.pub 14 points 4 months ago

Are they really ok with a candidate who's going to try to deport them (at best) or kill them (at worst) for not being white enough, just because they can't get over their transphobia? If so, then we really are lost

[-] plumbercraic@lemmy.sdf.org 14 points 4 months ago

Sad but unsurprising to see a bona fide member of the working class downvoted for pointing out that some of the popular rhetoric is pointlessly divisive and does nothing to help the working class.

Many of todays activists seem to be doing anything but actually helping the various communities they are oh so eager to bully people on behalf of.

[-] JamesStallion@sh.itjust.works 12 points 4 months ago

The folks I work with would never associate with the chronically online hexbear types you see here, the ones constantly blaming "crackers" for transphobia.

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

Hey these guys want you to have an actual standard of living. But they also want this thing completely irrelevant to you.

So fuck them right?

[-] Maggoty@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Which is conservative propaganda. That's not intrinsic to the working class, it's intrinsic to watching fox news and listening to Russian state media call our military soft.

[-] Damage@feddit.it 9 points 4 months ago

Yeah, people here don't want to hear it, but unfortunately it's the truth. You or I may care, the great majority of people have probably never even met a trans person, if they have they haven't realized, they don't see it as an important matter, not when we have the ecosystem on a destruction course and growing economic inequality (and they don't care much about those if not that they are facing growing difficulties in their daily lives).

[-] DumbAceDragon@sh.itjust.works 15 points 4 months ago

Bold of you to call terminally online MLs democrats.

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 10 points 4 months ago

Before Stonewall: Queer liberation’s Communist Party roots

That might sound like a big claim to make, but it was Communist ideology and political strategy that provided the theoretical and practical architecture of the earliest effort to win gay equality in the United States—the Mattachine Society, a group whose ideas underpinned all the struggles and victories in the country that have been won over the past half century. Without them, there would no doubt have been a movement for queer equality in one form or another, as there were already stirrings elsewhere prior to Mattachine, especially in Europe. But without Mattachine, the movement that emerged would likely have looked a lot different than it does now.

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[-] HakFoo@lemmy.sdf.org 13 points 4 months ago

I suspect the American left focused on LGBTQ+ issues because it was a "safe" mission.

Increasing official tolerance there was no threat to their donors or the wealthy in general. Nobody had to pay more in taxes or submit to meaningful government regulstion to enforce "don't explicitly fire/assault/refuse to marry someone for being gay/trans". Arguably those policies could have ecen come out of broader expectations for "stay out of people's personal lives" rather than making special cutouts and declaring a marginal group.

Looks impressive, accomplishes very little. Pretty much sums up the Democratic party for the last 50 years.

[-] roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com 58 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

I don't know what "very little" means to you, but I have friends that are married with children, unlikely to face violence motivated by bigotry (location dependant, YMMV), and have legal protections from discrimination in housing and employment.

When I was a kid they could get fired or evicted with no recource, and if they had the temerity to poke their head out of the closet someone could kick their ass with impunity unless they were seriously injured or killed, and sometimes even then.

But sure, "very little," let's go with that.

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[-] Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 11 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Trans rights are human rights, working class are human.

Yes I ate the onion but I know well meaning 'progressives' like this and they infuriate me

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[-] GaMEChld@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

I mean I understand the point. The left does a great job of creating noise about issues that affect low numbers of people that end up galvanizing more opposition than it generates in votes. If the thing you advocate for ends up getting more votes against it rather than for it due to your advocacy, you just hurt your own cause.

Long term strategy is key.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 21 points 4 months ago

Trans rights are human rights.

Advocating for human rights shouldn't require a mathematical calculation of how many humans are affected.

[-] UNY0N@lemmy.world 9 points 4 months ago

It shouldn't, but it does. We do not live in a perfect world.

When doctors at the emergency room have to make decisions about who to treat first, they follow guidelines like this one. Those help save lives, by making sure that those patients who need the most urgent care get it first.

In the same way, elevating LGBT issues above more pressing needs of the general population doesn't help anyone, not even LGBT people.

How does gender-affirming care help someone who is homeless and jobless with no healthcare? Is proper pronoun awareness really more important than environmental protection, or combating political corruption?

Just to be clear, I 100% agree that trans rights are human rights. It is an important issue, and deserves attention. But what about black lives matter? Isn't that important anymore? Are we still on that bandwagon, or did it get old? (I realize I'm getting snarky here, my apologies)

Addressing the unnecessary suffering of minority groups of all kinds is important. But putting them above issues that are critical to the survival of our society as a whole hurts everyone, even the people that these policies are designed to help.

[-] CileTheSane@lemmy.ca 5 points 4 months ago

You are making the mistake of assuming only one thing can be done at a time, and if everyone is not focused on "the most important thing" at all times then it is inefficient. This is not only untrue, it causes nothing to progress because nobody can agree on what the "most important thing" is.

Things can be worked on in parallel. While a group works on how to best address homelessness, another group can address LGBT issues while yet another group tackles environmental protection.
You can't just throw everyone on a single problem or it becomes less efficient. Sure, 2 people can sweep the floor faster than 1 person, but if you try to get 100 people sweeping the floor in order to "prioritize it and get it done faster" it's going to be a nightmare and never get finished.

Having one person sweep the floors, another clean the windows, another do the dishes, another do the laundry, another make dinner, another wash the dog, another mow the lawn, another tidy the living room, etc. Is going to have the house clean and in shape a lot faster than if you have all those people make dinner (because dinner is the most important) and then have everyone mow the lawn, only after the lawn is finished have everyone do the laundry....

And all of this ignores the fact that I am not in government. I cannot meaningfully address the homelessness issue. I can stand up for the rights of trans people.
Maybe I could form a group to try to find the most effective methods of addressing homelessness and send our findings to the government. Okay, once we've done that now what? Government takes time, homelessness still exists, I guess we double check our research? Yup, research still looks good, our findings still stand. Guess we'll send that to the government as well. But there's still homelessness and homelessness is more important that human rights. (Sorry, trans rights. Trans rights are less important because there are less of them and neither you nor I are trans.) So seeing as homelessness still exists and is more important I guess we triple check the research? I'm pretty sure it's right, but homelessness isn't over so we can't spend any amount of effort on something else because that would be inefficient.

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[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 10 points 4 months ago

Jews are a very small part of the population. If Republicans were passing laws specifically to persecute Jews, would you be making the same excuses for ignoring it? None of us are free until all of us are.

[-] DelightfullyDivisive@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago

My understanding of the history of the fediverse, such as it is, is that it was initially used by marginalized groups. Specifically LGBTQ people who felt (and in fact were) persecuted on other platforms.

Trans rights are a core issue to many people here. This is likely why your take is being met with outright rejection by so many.

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[-] lolcatnip@reddthat.com 8 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Republicans obviously think persecuting trans people is a winning issue. Should Democrats not put a comparable amount of effort into defending them?

[-] Kecessa@sh.itjust.works 7 points 4 months ago

Political strategists are there to make party win even if it hurts the feelings of a minority, more news at 6

[-] UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 5 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Political strategists are there to make ~~party win~~ themselves money even if it hurts the feelings of a minority, more news at 6

So many of these consultants just exist to restate the bigotries and biases of the candidate, in hopes that they'll be hired on as Yes-Men in a doomed campaign. The GOP has been overplaying its hand on trans-politics since the Obama era. Candidates that run on this shit routinely get washed in all but the safest elections, because they sound like freaks when they run around town posting weird AI art with "IS THIS A WOMAN?!?! VOTE FOR ME!!!" next to it.

But because its become such a baked-in GOP strategy, we're now forced to treat "When can a mall cop grope your daughter's crotch to check if she's secretly a man?" as a serious campaign question.

Strategists don't care. They know their campaign is paid for by a bunch of bible-thumping neanderthals. So this kind of campaigning just won't stop. Because, paradoxically, the losing only makes people madder and more conspiracy-minded and more willing to throw good money after bad.

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this post was submitted on 09 Sep 2024
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