Understandable, being as they're the Banderite freaks who lost WW2.

Deeply cringe, though, as all nazi shit is.

It's an investment for selling the country. The current government is sort of like a real estate agency.

I mean that's kind of the point that they're aiming at, isn't it

The Banderites fought against the Soviets and lost! They’ve been wanting this revenge ever since.

if they had any dignity they would fix their ideology

They believe the USSR is evil but just replace the symbol on the statue to theirs lol. It’s the equivalent of taking down the confederate flag from a Robert E Lee statue and replacing it with an American flag.

Also, all their dignity was spent on the revolution it seems.

Hot take but I bet they wouldn't have replaced it if somebody hadn't chosen to invade them (on whatever reason).

Seems kinda debatable, Ukraine has had a thing for removing Soviet symbols for a long time now, so although the war might have expedited things a little I think it probably would have happened at some point anyway.

Google Stephan Bandera statues. Ukkkraine loves Nazis like amerikkkan south loves slavers

They all just differ so much from the Nazis

Ah yes, the Ukrainians, famous for being completely distinct from Nazis, especially when it comes to collaborating to commit the genocide of hundreds of thousands during WWII.

So if Putin loses the death match it's fine then for the richest westerners to pillage (again) the people of Russia (like they never stopped doing to an "independent" Ukraine) and to set up a bunch of military bases on the border with China. You're analysis has no historical context other than somewhat acknowledging that the cold war is bad for the working class. This isn't a 2-way street.

Wrong, they began doing this sort of shit before the invasion, right after the Nazis took power in the 2014 coup. And they are actual literal Nazis, it makes no sense at all to equivocate by lumping them together with Russia and China (China, really? Wtf lol).

Are the Ukrainians Nazis? - No! Are there ukrainian Nazis / radical nationalists?

They had a fascist coup in 2014, what followed was nazis being empowered throughout government and military offices. The merging of nazi brigades into the military officially, fascist policy, fascist education, the revision of history, the honouring of fascist historical figures as "heroes" (Stepan Bandera being the most well known of which), and none of this has changed since. Early on in the war they banned all political parties except for the existing ruling party and the fascist parties.

This video contains some highlights of the last few years.

If you don't believe nazism is still in power in this government here is the Secretary of Defense saying that asians are not human only a few days ago.

And if that's not enough? Here is a major Ukrainian polling agency demonstrating the effect of nazis being in power in Ukraine. In 2012 support for Stepan Bandera was only 22%. Today, after the changes and promotion of his fascist beliefs, the lionisation of him and the remaking of Ukraine into an ultranationalist nation, that support is now 74%. Quote:

In particular, the attitudes that gradually improved are the ones towards Ivan Mazepa (44% in 2012 and 76% in 2022), Simon Petliura (26% in 2012 and 49% in 2022) and Stepan Bandera (22% in 2012 and 74% in 2022).

Stepan Bandera was leader of the OUN, which killed tens of thousands of jews during the holocaust and was regarded by the Nazi SS as extreme and particularly brutal even by their standards. What you MUST understand about this shift in perception is that this is like making Hitler popular in Germany again by remaking the education system, changing how you promote him and creating/promoting glorious stories of him as an important figure and hero of modern Germany. This shift has been led by fascists throughout government who are categorically not good people.

My honest opinion: Why don't we just host a hunger games session: winner takes Donbass & Crimea. No hiding in a bunker just a team deathmatch: Putin and his gang vs Selensky, Biden and their gang. (Radical nationalists on both sides are welcome to die there too). Visitor entry 's free for all innocent people who have lost their home, body abilities, minds or loved ones in this conflict.

Why don't we let the people of Donbas and Crimea decide for themselves what they want to do?

Originally published January 12, 1988

https://www.villagevoice.com/in-search-of-a-soviet-holocaust/

Which leaves us with a puzzle: Wouldn’t one or two or 3.5 million fam­ine-related deaths be enough to make an anti-Stalinist argument? Why seize a wildly inflated figure that can’t possibly be supported? The answer tells much ahout the Ukrainian nationalist cause, and about those who abet it.

“They’re always looking to come up with a number bigger than six million,” observed Eli Rosenbaum, general counsel for the World Jewish Congress. “It makes the reader think: ‘My god, it’s worse than the Holocaust.’ ”

In its original statement of purpose in 1929, the OUN betrays a raw Nazi influ­ence: “Do not hesitate to commit the greatest crime, if the good of the Cause demands it … Aspire to expand the strength, riches, and size of the Ukraini­an State even by means of enslaving for­eigners.” This sentiment was echoed in a 1941 letter to the German Secret Service from the OUN’s dominant Bandera wing: “Long live greater independent Ukraine without Jews, Poles, and Germans. Poles behind the [river] San, Germans to Ber­lin, Jews to the gallows.”

Not surprisingly, Ukrainian émigrés are among the harshest and most power­ful critics of Nazi-hunting. They have sought to kill both the Justice Depart­ment’s Office of Special Investigations and the Canadian Deschenes Commis­sion — and with good reason. Sol Littman, director of the Simon Wiesenthal Center in Toronto, recently presented the com­mission with the names of 475 suspected Nazi collaborators. He reports that Ukrainians were “very heavily represent­ed” on the list.

It may not be sheer coincidence that faminology took wing just after the OSI was commissioned in 1979. For here was a way to rehabilitate fascism- — to prove that Ukrainian collaborators were help­less victims, caught between the rock of Hitler and Stalin’s hard place. To wit, this bit of psycho-journalism from the 33 March 24 Washington Post, in a story on accused war criminal John “Ivan the Terrible” Demjanjuk: “The pivotal event in Demjanjuk’s childhood was the great famine of the early 1930s, conceived by Soviet dictator Joseph Stalin as a way of destroying the independent Ukrainian peasantry … Several members of [Demjanjuk’s] family died in the catastrophe.”

Coupled with the old nationalist ca­nard of “Judeo-Bolshevism,” faminology could help justify anti-Semitism, collabo­ration, even genocide. An eye for an eye; a Nazi holocaust in return for a “Jewish famine.”

Just as the Nazis used the OUN for their own ends, so has Reagan exploited the famine, from his purple-prosed com­memoration of “this callous act” to his backing of the Mace commission. Faced with failing fascist allies around the world, from Nicaragua to South Africa, the U.S. war lobby needs to boost anti­-Communism as never before. Public en­thusiasm to fight for the contras will not come easy. But if people could be con­vinced that Communism is worse than fascism; that Stalin was an insane mon­ster, even worse than Hitler; that the seven million died in more unspeakable agony than the six million …. Well, we just might be set up for the next Gulf of Tonkin. One cannot appease an Evil Em­pire, after all.

You are ignoring that groups like Azov, which are explicitly neonazi, are part of Ukraine's military in an official capacity. Russia hires Nazi mercenaries, but it does not have Nazi divisions within its own government (though there are cliques that are personally/conspiratorially fascist). There is also the issue of Stepen Bandera being the national hero and defended in all sorts of ways (including Holocaust denial) by the Ukrainian government. Putin and friends are cynical mafiosos, but they aren't out there denying that the Tsar did pogroms.

I have no idea what you are talking about with China unless you are just upset at some Chinese media talking about the Nazi problem in Ukraine.

Also, as others said, let the people of Donbas and Crimea decide. Oh wait, they kind of did, and it turned out that they didn't like the government that was ethnically discriminating against them.

Listen, you absolute schmuck. Putin shaking hands with a Russian Radical Nationalist biker gang is a fundementally different relationship than the Ukrainians having people who literally valorize Nazi collaborators in WWII in your upper echelon military brass, while simultaneously privatizing all of their state's assets to American and European corporations. I'm not saying that Putin is 'good', but pretending that 'Russian leadership is just as Nazi as Ukrainian leadership' is a completely laughable statement on it's face.

And why bother including China in this at all? We know you'll just turn on them when the media tells you to like the squealing hog that you are. Join up soldier, die to attack those Chinese Nazis!

While I disagree on some things you've said, we do both agree that the best outcome for the actual people living in Ukraine is peace. Unfortunately, the west has shown that they are not interested in peace, and would rather use the proxy war to bleed both Ukraine and Russia to the last citizen. See: Boris Johnson stepping in to sabotage peace talks, and Angela Merkel admitting in an interview that NATO had never intended to honor the Minsk agreements but were only using them to stall for time to allow Ukraine to militarize. This means that a peace settlement that leaves the current ukrainian puppet government in power is unacceptable to the russians, while one that removes them would obviously be unacceptable to the current ukrainian government. Never even mind the disputes over the territories Russia holds or even formally annexed. Sadly the war looks like it will continue until one side runs out of money and materiel, neither of which are in short supply for the US/NATO or Russia.

Aaaaaaannnnnnnnddddddd

The community has spoken, you will be welcomed back in 10 days, but until then maybe lurk here a bit and try to knock some of your liberal brain worms out.

Or just don't come back

Edit: Received a DM from them, if you want to continue to post here just do so in good faith. Of all the other bad takes I've seen from lemmee this one was the least jingoistic and at least it's doing both sides instead of "SLAVA UKRAINE"