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Some U.S. officials are frustrated at the pace of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, which has gained less than 100 square miles of territory.

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[-] Hubi@feddit.de 66 points 1 year ago

I could maybe understand the criticism if Russia had made further gains, but you have to keep in mind that Ukraine has liberated 74,443 km² or 28,743 square miles since the start of the invasion. The offensive may not have had the effect that many hoped for after their earlier successes but they are facing defensive positions that have been set up and fortified over months. It will take some time to force a breakthrough and they are still constantly chipping away at the frontline. It's a good thing that they are advancing carefully and not just sending expendable waves of untrained soldiers like the Russians do.

[-] kae@lemmy.ca 39 points 1 year ago

It's an interesting product of a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years. It's always been far away.

We seek instant gratification, when in reality these are people's lives. It should move slowly, especially against heavily mined positions. I'm wondering if we'll see much progress until the F-16s enter the field to gain air support for the ground troops.

[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

a western world that hasnt really seen war in 70 years

Do TV stations in the West don't show the war they produce? Because as far as I know we haven't stopped having wars where the West is involved since at least 200 years, so I'm not really sure I follow you there. Afghanistan doesn't count or what?

[-] HobbitFoot@thelemmy.club 5 points 1 year ago

Sure it has, but it has mainly seen it through the lens of the USA. The USA has been able to overpower other militaries on such an extreme scale that people think a war should be over in a week.

Most of the deaths were saw in Iraq and Afghanistan were from an insurgency fighting an occupying force. It wasn't the same as two industrial nations fighting. No one really covered the Iran-Iraq War, so the closest experience would likely be Korea.

[-] kae@lemmy.ca 5 points 1 year ago

Might be a play on the word "see" here.

Wars are distant things to North America. A product that is viewed only through glass or a screen. There has never been conventional war on modern north American soil, so it is something people go to, but not a devastation that really affects day to day life.

I'd liken the attitude more to Hollywood movies: an export of American (US) culture.

So the understanding that this is people's literal homes. That life is finite, and war is atrocious is disconnected. I can watch Saving Private Ryan, Band of Brothers, Black Hawk Down, etc. to get a taste of war, but when I'm done with it, I want it to resolve and be over.

That's not possible for Ukrainians. Their country is still occupied. The devastation on their land will continue for decades.

Even if they crash through the lines next week, and sweep aside Russian defences like dust there are decades of rebuilding and de-mining ahead.

The cultural West must be willing to be in that journey every step of the way, or we risk another radicalized generation in the future that heard the promises, but lived the broken actions.

All in my opinion, of course, from the safety of my home.

[-] rammer@sopuli.xyz 3 points 1 year ago

They showed what the US government wanted them to see.

[-] DigitalTraveler42@lemmy.world 4 points 1 year ago

It's their entitlement that is causing them to demand instant gratification, to people like this the war is an "inconvenience" and every additional minute they have to deal with the reality of this extremely important war it's a sign that they're not getting their gratification sated. We're all struggling and making sacrifices and the entitled among us are far less willing to participate in that struggle and make those sacrifices.

[-] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 3 points 1 year ago

Instant gratification?? How about instant, decisive and meaningful support? Day 1, tanks have crossed the border and are advancing towards Kiyv? Close all borders, halt all trade, threaten to nuke Moscow unless they leave by Day 3, nuke Moscow on day 3.

Instead, the western world offers thoughts, prayers and excuses, with only occasional tanks here and there in between, months and years too late, making it worse for literally everyone. So when people that are watching Ukraine been helped just enough to save the helpers' faces, suffering through the bloodshed unfolding for a year+, and said people are not willing to normalize the shameful history page they're living through... I think it's neither fair nor productive to accuse them of seeking instant gratification.

Damn, if everybody really demanded instant gratification, democracies worked and politicians complied, we would've been talking about the war in past tense.

[-] OutlierBlue@lemmy.ca 8 points 1 year ago

It's almost like no one wants to start a global thermonuclear war that annihilates our species. I'm glad the actual people in charge are able to see the shades of grey you can't.

[-] monk@lemmy.unboiled.info 1 points 1 year ago

I'm sorry you fell victim to the powerful madman image Russia is so desperate to project, when (misguided) rational cowardrice is all it does.

[-] MarxMadness@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Ukraine has liberated 74,443 km² or 28,743 square miles since the start of the invasion

The front lines have remained basically static since Fall '22.

[-] bappity@lemmy.world 51 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

this article reads like an impatient investor

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 15 points 1 year ago

That is because that is the relationship. The west has been massively privatizing Ukraine.

[-] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago

Big claims require big evidence.

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 9 points 1 year ago
[-] sunbeam60@lemmy.one 10 points 1 year ago

All that describes is a lease and buy-back scheme for a state desperate for cash (understandably). It states nothing about “the west privatising Ukraine”. No statement of pressure, no statement about western influence in the decision.

[-] AlbigensianGhoul@lemmygrad.ml 1 points 1 year ago

Our partners: USAID

Just shouting the quiet part from the rooftops. Absolutely beyond parody.

[-] ChoppyPorkupines@lemmy.world 37 points 1 year ago

"Bully punches kid and steals $50, kid only manages to get back $30, is the kid a fucking loser?" This is what the sentiment usually feels like, even if it's not what the reporting is about, please be aware of this.

[-] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago

Let's leave the rest of your narrative alone for second. Kid fights back and loses use of several fingers, loses several teeth, and is now deaf in one ear but has managed to get back $0.10

[-] CMLVI@kbin.social 0 points 1 year ago

Lmao so what would you describe the massive losses Russia has taken in terms of lives, machinery, and munitions, as well as the open revolt Wagner engaged in? If Ukraine is losing fingers, teeth, and hearing, I imagine Russia has full on lost a limb and has bleeding to stabilize.

That rebellion was probably part of Put-daddy's plan tho, right?

[-] freagle@lemmygrad.ml 0 points 1 year ago

The US is sending more aid per year than Russia's entirely military budget and Russia hasn't even gotten through it's old weapon systems yet.

But that's also besides the point. Let's assume you're right and Russia has lost more than Ukraine. How does that jive with Ukraine's inability to make meaningful progress in their offensive? They've reclaimed something like .2% of their lost territory, which is easily within the margins of the ebb and flow of conflict.

[-] CMLVI@kbin.social 1 points 1 year ago

So Putin, who is openly saying that the offensive isn't going as planned, is OK sending tens of thousands of soldiers into the grinder agaisnt better equipment, just to go through surplus? He's choosing to have thousands of Russians killed while sitting on equipment that could keep them safe?

What a guy. Noble cause he's after, de-nazi-fying a sovereign nation, while also getting his citizens massacred in tank columns and shoddy equipment while he keeps the good stuff at home.

Unless that isn't what he's doing? But you did just say they were using old stuff on purpose. You wouldn't be wrong, would you?

[-] CapgrasDelusion@kbin.social 35 points 1 year ago

Ukraine: we need tanks/armor!
West: hmm, no that would be too provocative.
months later, as Russia digs trenches and lays mines
West: ok, ok, here are some tanks
Ukraine: Great, can we get better ammunition?
West: What?! No, yeesh.
months of mines and trenches later
West: Ok here are cluster munitions
Ukraine: thank you. None of this really works without air support though so...
West: What is your deal?
mine, mine, mine, trench trench
West: Ok maybe some F16s.

West: yo, what's taking so long?
Ukraine: I'm sorry? I can't hear you over ALL THE FUCKING MINES

[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 6 points 1 year ago

What a detailed description of all the Wunderwaffe they've been using, thanks!

[-] zephyrvs@lemmy.ml 25 points 1 year ago

Has my research on this been just been somehow skewed over the past months or does it really seem like Western media is suddenly turning on Ukraine?

Until like 1-2 weeks ago it was really difficult to find anything overly critical about Ukraine and now it seems as of there's a sudden change in coverage.

Is it just me? I think I've been rather thorough.

[-] OurToothbrush@lemmy.ml 18 points 1 year ago

They're getting ready to bail I think.

[-] Stuka@lemmy.ml 8 points 1 year ago

I haven't been thorough at all, but it seems that way to me. Not liking it.

[-] atlasraven31@lemm.ee 21 points 1 year ago

Mostly slow due to mines and the dam. Recently, Ukraine has made good progress in Crimea and some surprise attacks on RF assets. It will just take some time is all.

Note: Crimea looks less and less defendable by the day. With sanctions and international support for Ukraine, Russia is the one with a ticking clock.

[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 17 points 1 year ago

They are worried of losing control of the narrative, not of the war. They said the quiet part out loud.

[-] Ignacio@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

Some U.S. officials are frustrated at the pace of Ukraine’s counteroffensive, which has gained less than 100 square miles of territory.

Some U.S. officials should read Aesop's Fables, specifically one named "The Tortoise and the Hare".

[-] gary_host_laptop@lemmy.ml 7 points 1 year ago

You could also say that Russia is the tortoise, so I don't think it's applicable here.

[-] autotldr@lemmings.world 11 points 1 year ago

This is the best summary I could come up with:


Ukrainian officials and their supporters say they are confident they will prevail on the battlefield in the end, but warn against what they see as unrealistic expectations in media coverage and commentaries that could create a misleading narrative suggesting it cannot and will not win.

Although equipped with new U.S. and other Western-made weapons and gear, including tanks, longer-range missiles and artillery ammunition, Ukraine lacks air power and has encountered stiff resistance from the Russian forces who have planted hundreds of mines across the front line, set up anti-tank barriers and dug rows of defensive trenches.

“We are confident that they have significant combat capability available to them, and that they’re going to employ that at a time and place of their choosing to defend their country and take back sovereign territory,” Pentagon press secretary Brig.

Leonid Polyakov, a former Ukrainian vice defense minister, said that in two separate cases, once in June and another time in July, a brigade commander had pursued direct assaults during the counteroffensive in hopes of a swift victory.

An assault with armored units in June failed to break through Russian lines in the south and, in the past week, Ukraine has made a concentrated effort in the western area of the Zaporizhia oblast, according to analysts and U.S. officials.

Both Ukrainian and Russian forces have failed to achieve major advances, and Samuel Charap, a senior political scientist at the Rand Corp think tank, argues that neither side has a realistic chance of scoring a definitive victory.


I'm a bot and I'm open source!

[-] Rule14@lemmy.ml 4 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

"hundreds of mines"

I'm willing to bet there's like at least a thousand.

[-] kayjay@kbin.social 9 points 1 year ago

Slow and steady wins the race.

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this post was submitted on 05 Aug 2023
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