Hi op, how has the journey been going? Are you still trying to lose weight?
Man, I gotta be real with you. You aren't going to be able to crowd source this. There's just too much outdated information, well meaning but flawed advice, and outright bullshit online. Finding the up to date, good answers among the junk would only be possible if you already knew it.
The only reliable way to get good answers about bariatrics is going to specialists. Seriously, you can't even totally rely on a general practitioner to be caught up, though you might get lucky with an internist. You can make do with nutritionists if they're either fairly newly graduated, or you know they keep up on their subject.
Hell, there's some specialists that lag behind in terms of proper, evidence driven best practices.
And the thing nobody online will likely admit is that there isn't a single, complete answer because part of how fat loss and gain works is governed by individual circumstances regarding hormones, metabolism, and capabilities, which still ignores external factors in making a prescribed weight loss plan work. If your broke ass lives in a food desert, and you're limited to the corner store for the majority of your supplies, the task gets much harder, just as one example of what I mean by that.
Any medications you're on, that's got to be factored in to an overall plan, even OTC meds, supplements, etc.
Now, there are strategies that are fairly reliable in helping manage calorie intake, like going predominantly plant based. You'll have to study up and make sure that whatever plan you set up has the whole gamut of nutrients you'll need, but as long as a food desert isn't in play, that's usually easy enough. The good news about that is that the core foods tend to be very affordable, and easy to buy in bulk as long as you have storage space.
Another piece of good news is that if you're using exercise as part of your overall plan, not only will you give yourself a wider space for intake, but it improves your health no matter what weight you're at along the way. I mean, losing excess fat is great, but it isn't going to magically make your cardiovascular system work at its best.
And, again, you can only take this comment with a grain of salt because you have no way of knowing that I'm up to date on the interrelated subjects to a degree high enough to be useful. For all you know, I'm thirty years behind on things. And, truth is that the general subject matter isn't a high priority for my reading time. I do put a bit of time every week into digging through journals and publications with a focus on medical shit, but bariatrics isn't something I'm into for my own curiosity. So I have to be at least a little behind as default because I'm always behind even on my favorite subjects because I can't devote enough time to it all.
Weight management is something you have to take on as a long term project where you adapt along the way. You can't look at it as weight loss either, because just losing excess fat is only part of the project. You have to keep it off and improve your overall health.
Eating healthier is not nearly as complicated as this post makes it sound, unless you have unusual underlying medical issues or are aiming to sculpt your body in a very specific way.
That's it. This is all the advice most people realistically need to lose weight/eat better. The hard part is being disciplined about it. Now, discipline, on the other hand, that's a very personal matter.
I can attest from a personal anecdote that eating plant-based makes it enormously easier to cut calories. Provided you don't decide to take the costliest, least healthy route of basically living off heavily processed plant-based substitutes or the cheapest, second-least healthy route of living off pasta, ramen, and cereal, you're likely on a diet with plenty of healthy mono- and polyunsaturated fats (and pretty minimal saturated), a high amount of proteins from nuts, seeds, grains, and legumes, a moderate amount of carbs in the form of cereal and simple sugars from fruits, and an absolute abundance of fiber (of which 95% Americans don't get enough).
Even just incorporating something like tofu into your diet helps a bunch, because it's basically all protein and good fats while having just a small amount of carbs. Per calorie, it does the best job I've ever seen of making you feel full for a long time.
You’re absolutely going to lose weight at 500-1000 kcal a day. It’s not particularly healthy, and you’re going to lose significant muscle mass, but you will absolutely lose weight rapidly. A significant caloric deficit will not prevent weight loss; its thermodynamics. You’ll lose muscle with that much of a deficit, which in turn decreases basal metabolic rate, but you’re not going to violate thermodynamics.
How are you tracking intake? If you’re not losing weight, I don’t believe you’re tracking calories correctly. Are you using a scale and weighing portions, or just eyeballing it?
Your body probably will go full panic mode and store back as much as possible as soon as you starts to eat normally again. I'd advice agains doing anything so violent, and just lower your food intake to a bit under normal.
Store back what? That's not how physics works. If they continue to eat only what their body needs to maintain a set weight, they're not magically going to gain weight because their body somehow is able to violate the laws of physics.
So first off, I don't think you should bring the laws of physics into conversations of how human bodies store fat. I know it's tempting - I've been there before - but it's just too reductive to be useful in the conversation, and it leads to generally poor conclusions.
While it's true that energy cannot be 'conjured from nothing' - human bodies don't quite work on a fixed energy in/out model. They can be variably efficient in how much energy is required to perform certain tasks, and secondary systems can be turned off when the need to conserve energy becomes apparent (leptin is the signaling mechanism for this).
The main mechanisms that cause rebound weight gain after sharp dieting is a reduction in passive energy needs stemming from the change in leptin levels, along with leptins very strong effect on appetite.
I suggest to you, and anyone still under the impression that CICO is a useful model for understanding human metabolism, to read the book The Hungry Brain. It's hugely useful for gaining greater insight into the subject.
So first off, I don't think you should bring the laws of physics into conversations of how human bodies store fat. I know it's tempting - I've been there before - but it's just too reductive to be useful in the conversation, and it leads to generally poor conclusions.
Are you suggesting our bodies are more efficient and break thermodynamics?
While it's true that energy cannot be 'conjured from nothing' - human bodies don't quite work on a fixed energy in/out model. They can be variably efficient in how much energy is required to perform certain tasks, and secondary systems can be turned off when the need to conserve energy becomes apparent (leptin is the signaling mechanism for this).
What secondary systems get turned off? You're body is going to utilize energy anyway it can if it needs it, if it doesn't it stores it, usually in the form of fat.
The main mechanisms that cause rebound weight gain after sharp dieting is a reduction in passive energy needs stemming from the change in leptin levels, along with leptins very strong effect on appetite.
No it's from eating way more calories...this is literally junk science your parroting here. The rebound in weight is because someone decides to stuff themselves again.
I suggest to you, and anyone still under the impression that CICO is a useful model for understanding human metabolism, to read the book The Hungry Brain. It's hugely useful for gaining greater insight into the subject.
That book is about the psychology of overeating.
Hell here is a quote from his AMA:
There are many ways to lose weight, but they all involve either eating fewer calories or burning more.
It's callef the yoyo effect (that's why you should see a nutritionist when you want to lose weight). Also recent research hints at cells becoming more efficient when there is less energy available. There is even a Kurzhesagt video about it if you are interested.
It seems it is not so easy as calories in, calories out.
No...just no. You're arguing against literal physical laws here. Most people do not accurately count their calories and end up posting antidotal garbage that gets passed off as science.
The talk around weight loss is kinda crazy and a lot of it is dominated by pseudoscience.
However, we are pretty much positive that eating at a calorie deficit will result in weight loss in 99.9% of cases and you aren't going to be the 0.1%. There's a lot of anecdotal data about how eating too little will make you stop losing weight or even gain more weight because of your 'metabolism', but no controlled studies that show that to be a significant contributor without other causes. It's not some magical metabolism trick, you're just cheating on your metrics and doing less because you're tired and cranky and have no energy because you aren't eating right.
Saying that, eating at a massive deficit can definitely make you feel like shit and will make it hard to exercise, do not recommend. You will also likely have a part of your brain dedicated to fantasizing about food 24/7 and your libido will likely be in the trash if that matters to you. This will be very hard to maintain, and you have to remember that there's never going to be a day where you can go back to eating like 'normal'. Your current normal is why you need to lose weight and your goal is to eventually establish a new baseline.
Lastly, highly recommend against adding calories back due to exercise. We don't have a lot of good data about there being any reliable indicators of actual calories burned available to the average person and you'll find a tremendous amount of super variable answers when you find instances where people tried to actually test the estimates you see online. The time you put into exercise isn't about weight loss, it will help, but it's a bonus just for you because you deserve to have the body that you want.
800-1000 calories a day is not “slowing your metabolism”
I'm confused too. OP is trying to lose weight by eating more calories? I feel like I'm missing something.
There is a ton of bullshit out there from the HAAS groups, that say "your body will go into survival mode if you eat a calorie deficit and will make you gain weight". It's just bullshit pettled by people who don't want to get healthy.
The implication of your post is that you're struggling to get to 1500 calories, but you're also trying to lose, presumably, a large amount of weight.
If you're overweight, you clearly know how to eat enough calories. Eat more, like you were doing when you became overweight in the first place.
If you're not overweight and you're struggling to eat more than 1,000 calories, you should probably see a therapist about a potential eating disorder.
More broadly, eating 1,000 calories can make losing weight harder because you are likely to lower your basal metabolism and giving yourself less energy to burn calories through activity.
The math of 1,000 calories/day works out theoretically and may seem enticing ("I will lose an entire extra pound a week!"), but in practice it can often make things more challenging than it needs to be.
The simple fact is that losing weight is a long-term process. And, in general, you can gain a lot more weight in a month than you can lose, so weight gain/loss are not symmetrical processes.
In terms of your specific question about "eating back" calories from exercise: in general, you should indeed increase your calorie consumption if you are regularly exercising. Whether you should eat back every calorie you burn is far too nuanced a question related to exercise routine, health goals, basal metabolism, diet, etc. to answer in the abstract.
Have you looked into animal-free alternatives like tofu, beans, or lentils?
Tofu has fewer calories than chicken per 100g, though it also doesn't have as much protein for the same size.
I do eat beans and lentils on occasion maybe I should try more? I've tried tofu never cared for it lol.
Can you give an example of what you currently eat? I.. doubt you aren't losing weight if you are really eating 900 calories a day.
Weight loss advice is nearly a religion. You're going to have a million different people telling you that something absolutely is or isn't a certain way. They'll claim science isn't science, that the body is magical and mystical and you won't achieve your goals if you don't do exactly X or y.
The body does some weird things when you start going into starvation mode but it's not magic.
If you maintain a calorie deficit, eventually you will lose fat. You'll also lose muscle.
The calculations for how many calories you actually burn doing something are kind of voodoo, they vary wildly per individual.
You create a calorie deficit so that your body will burn the fat. You work out so that your body will put more energy into building the muscle you'll be losing. The only way you lose weight is through breathing out carbon dioxide. If you sit around sedentary that's going to take a very long time.
Pick a target for how much weight you want to lose over a month. Pick a calorie deficit that makes sense to you. Weigh yourself every couple of days and calculate a sliding average. Tune the number of calories you're eating after the first couple weeks to maintain your weight loss target.
You do need to be careful with extremely low calorie diets. You want to be monitored by a doctor and have regular blood tests to make sure stuff isn't going awry.
If you want to go cheap, use a free intake monitoring app, eat eggs, beans and rice, try to cram some vegetables in there where you can. Don't go out of your way to avoid fat but don't guzzle it either. Shy away from processed carbs like bread and noodles. Don't necessarily go keto, but keep your carbs in check.
You'll get a lot of contradictory answers with this question because of two major issues.
There is more than one way to make your scale number go down.
Your scale number going down can be for multiple reasons.
For example, dropping a bunch of body fat is a way of posing weight, but it does not look any different on the scale than losing muscle mass or losing a leg. You can have more healthy recomposition where you drop a bunch of fat slowly over time and gain some muscle but overall lose absolutely no weight on the scale, and you can also gain weight without changing fat but be in a better position.
So what would you aim for? It depends on your goals. Do you want to be jacked? Maybe you have early signs of type 2 diabetes and want to stop it there. Or maybe you just really want to get rid of your skin issues like acne and dermititis.
Nobody benefits from being insulin resistant. That is the state that pushes you towards weight gain, diabetes, heart disease, and many other issues including dementia. Fixing that is a central goal for a lot of people and it actually helps with most other health related goals. If I were starting somewhere that is where I would probably try to start.
That said, if you have very little muscle that may be better to work on.
Can you give more detail about your goals?
Basically I have a gut which I want to get rid of (Ik you can’t spot reduce sadly). I don’t want to get super jacked I just want to lose this guy and get muscle. And avoid diabetes since it runs in my family.
I’ve currently been working on muscle more since my job thankfully has a gym I do strength there two days a week and walk/run 3
OK, so good, a clear starting point.
First, adding muscle is a fantastic way to go. Muscle burns energy and new muscle is not insulin resistant, so it lowers your overall insulin resistance. This is key to liberating fat and burning it for energy.
The other big key is diet. Your current diet is overwhelming your body's ability to burn without storing as fat. This means you are gaining body fat and this will get worse over time. Gaining muscle can help a fair bit but your existing muscle tissue along with other things like fat cells and other organs are all at the point of damage from high sugar levels in your diet. The fact that you can make yourself go to the gym is great, it means you have caught this before it has gotten too bad.
So to make progress on your diet you probably need to do a couple of things. First is check for other symptoms like swelling around the jawline, fat build up over the spine between your shoulders, rash and skin discolouration, pale gums and lips, and any sort of weakness in nails and hair. These are all potential indicators of an acute deficiency and may need medical support. That said, all of these are generally helped by dietary work, so if nothing massive is presenting like a goiter or anaemic gums you should probably just move forward with diet and reevaluate later.
So what to eat. The biggest problem seems to be sugar, followed by the sugar/fat/salt hyper palatable mix, then hyper processed, and lastly problematic plants. If you eat meat, which I would strongly recommend, then paring everything down to very simple meals is the best option. A kilogram of meat per day is a reasonable base for basically everyone. If you start there and can make it a week without anything else you will have a good starting point for completing an exclusion diet. If you can't jump directly to that then dropping out the worst items is a good step.
Dropping the worst means getting rid of the most packaged and insane foods, like cakes that last 6 months on the shelf or items with ingredients lists longer than The Art of War. If you keep eating sugars but they are in simple forms, for example honey or while fruit, you will avoid most of the worst stuff. It would also be good to learn more about cooking meat properly, so learn how to fry steak, cook chicken wings, and maybe roast a leg of pork. Learn to make basic stuff that tastes good and you will find reducing other crap easier.
Ultimately trying to hit numbers of grams of fat, protein, and carbs is a losing game. You don't know all the internal systems you have and how they allocate energy, but you do have a handy system they operate with, hunger. We should fix your hunger to make it work properly and that is what the above is for. You have simple foods, your body learns what they provide, your hunger becomes more accurate for what you need.
Once your hunger works properly you will do something like work out and you will feel more hungry in the day or two following it. Then chasing numbers won't be needed at all and you can relax.
This helped me: https://nutritionsource.hsph.harvard.edu/what-should-you-eat/
See if you can track down Weight Watchers stuff. The plan itself is expensive, but the basic approach is to simplify doing exactly what you describe. They formalize food categories, portion size, and simplified tracking. Alternatively, they have recipes meeting specific calorie goal, while also having good nutrient value
As far as I know: forget this thing about the lowered metabolism. Your body needs the energy it needs for basic functionality.
You may feel less active, lowering the energy used above the basics, but still your heart, lungs, brain, temperature management and all the other stuff need roughly the same energy. If your body does not get it from food then it will use up the fat.
But eating this low level of calories you must make sure that you consume all needed vitamins, minerals and enough protein.
And being less active may end up in a decline of muscle mass. In the end that may lead to lower basal metabolsk hastighet, but not your metabolism shutting down.
Learn how to make alfredo sauce. Put it on everything. That will solve your lack of calories.
🤌
If you 1500 calories, then exercise and burn 500 calories, yes you would need to eat another 500 calories to reach 1500 calories.
Burning 500 calories through exercice is a lot
Is this a European joke I'm too Free to understand?
If your goal is to lose fat it doesn’t matter what you eat as long as you’re in calorie deficit.
10% restriction off your personal basal metabolic rate is not too bad. But it sounds like you’re wanting a severe cut so I’d recommend 25% under your BMR. You won’t be able to keep that up forever tho only like 6 weeks. You can find BMR charts online for age/height/sex
Fat loss is a lifestyle change. Do what you can be consistent with. It’s easier to add before taking away. So adding veges and protein is easier than trying to stop eating junk food. Protein will make you feel full and veges will fill you up just from quantity if your eating a decent amount of cals of them
There are a lot of good suggestions in this thread, one thing to note is that too much change too fast is a recipe for failure. Whatever you do, make sure it’s manageable. For each change, ask yourself whether it can become a permanent habit for you. This is the only way to sustain it enough to achieve your goals. It could help to write down good ideas, and try them one week or month at a time.
I can't give medical advice, I mean I can but I won't. Anyway, I was a professional chef who worked in three very different locations before leaving the pirate kitchen life of sodomy.
What's affordable is going to depend on where you are, so buy in-season fruits and vegetables. Try different recipes using things you know you can afford and when something clicks for you, write it down. Keep a list of the healthy meals and snacks that are easy for you to make because the hungry brain has no past or future. Aggressively mid foods like beans, peas, potatoes, barley and peanut butter are cheap and no one will care if you steal them.
If you're a shit cook find some videos and follow along or ask a friend to walk you through some recipes if you have one.
Keep heathy, craving satisfying food on hand. Make a batch of nut balls (nut butter mixed with seeds, dried berries and whatever) and keep them in the freezer. Have lots of different tea on hand if that's your thing, popcorn is filling and low calorie. My go-tos are: hard boiled egg, or a baked potato, or a bowl of peas. Don't knock a bowl of peas until you try it after a joint, mixed with coconut oil, salt, pepper and cayenne.
Try smoothies. One of my faves is almond milk, spinach, lime juice, cashew or hemp butter, banana, pinch of salt. Blending up greens is a great way to stuff them in and they're low calorie by volume. What's great is I can pre-portion all of those ingredients except the almond milk into containers and freeze them. Then making a smoothie is as simple as dumping the frozen brick in a blender with some liquid.
Grocery store prices can vary by day, sales usually go on before they get in a new order and need to clear the shelves. Figure that out and only buy meat in bulk on sale or wait by the dumpster at night. Make a big batch of something like curry, chili or stew with it and freeze in portions anything you won't eat in the next few days.
There is no shame in using low-income grocery options to get healthy food you can't otherwise afford. See if there are any in your area. I have friends on disability who get a box of fresh fruit and vegetables every week, food that's perfectly good but would otherwise be thrown out because of our high beauty standards for crops.
As someone who lost 60lb this year: just stop eating ultra processed garbage. Find real foods that you enjoy, and make meals out of those. Eat as much chicken, vegetables, fruits, unsweetened yogurt, fish, eggs, etc as you want and you will lose weight. Unhealthy stuff is fine to eat on occasion but only if you consider it well worth the calories and you are aware of how much you're eating. Dont mindlessly eat a family size bag of doritoes that you dont even like that much. Dont drown yourself in vegetable oil. I stopped buying loaves of bread, sweets, cereals (why are entire aisles of grocery stores dedicated to this garbage?) , carb-based snacks, etc.
Also no, working out does not mean you can eat a snicker's bar for free. The new Kurzgesagt video explains how that works. I dont believe you're gaining or even maintaining your weight at 800-1000 calories, but im just a random person.
The costco rotisserie chicken is only $5, just dont eat too much skin. Yogurt can be affordable and high in protein. Almond milk too. Nuts & beans are decent. Just look at protein to calorie ratios on cheap stuff so you maintain muscle, im sure you can find plenty of foods that work.
There's no way you need to somehow eat more to lose weight. Are you sure you're counting your calories correctly? Using an app? Tracking everything, especially drinks like sodas and alcohol?
Speak with a doctor, not the internet.
Here is a site that has some good lists: https://survival-mastery.com/diy/food_preserv/high-calorie-vegetables.html
Also, the number of calories you eat should be based on your current weight and the types of activities you plan on doing through the day. Calorie intake is variable!
Here is a chart for weight vs calorie intake vs activity: 
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