They say that like it's a bad thing.
What kills me is that this is a self-fulfilling prophecy of sorts. The longer they fight against change, the more people they will convince that capitalism itself is the problem.
Maybe capitalism needs to suck it up and pull itself up by its bootstraps instead of needing subsidized fossil fuels. /s
↑ This, but without the /s.
In particular, we need to protect the free market by creating a carbon tax to compensate for fossil fuels' negative externalities and level the playing field for "greener" competitors.
Not taxing carbon is anti-capitalist protectionism.
That or have the state stop giving money to corpos that definitely don't need it, or by breaking up monopolies just so fair competition can be a thing.
Seriously, thinking that America's system is capitalist is just as stupid as thinking it's the land of the free
You don't need to end capitalism to help the climate.
Just properly regulate it. It's a tool just like every other economic system, and shouldn't be hoisted to a higher pedestal. Every system that fails fails because regulation falls off the wayside and leads into corruption. Capitalism's only strength is it took longer to get there because all the power was spread out for awhile.
That's a pretty shallow take on historic economics.
Capitalism had a role to serve as the transition out of feudal economics.
Now it's time to do better.
Better as in what though?
We've used every economic system by itself, and the only really successful version is a combination of them with proper regulation. What else do you do?
Well there was a guy with a funny beard who wrote about what happens when capitalism produces more goods and services than could ever be reasonably consumed by the populace of the world. He wrote about how there were basically 2 coutcomes. Either the the rising supply just keeps pushing prices down until the only issue comes down to a logistics and distribution problem and money functionally becomes pointless and state power doesnt have any heirarchy to enforce. Or the people with money and power enforce artificial scarcity, through tactics like letting crops die in the fields, or only release so many diamonds into the market and promiting it as a good thing, to protect their wealth and power.
That seems more like a jab at capitalism than anything I said in that previous question.
Better as in what? What else hasn't been tried?
Consider this: modern capitalism was pretty much inconceivable to people living in the feudal era. In the same way, it is possible that the system we need is inconceivable to us at the moment. Critiquing capitalism and advocating for a move away from it is still useful.
There are plenty of things that haven't been tried aside from small-scale examples:
Okay, fair enough.
Socialism is probably the most realistic solution that's been "half tried" (and yes there's a difference between socialism and communism, the right just doesn't want people to know it because they might start thinking there's a viable alternative)... State run non profit corporations for all essential needs, capitalism for things that aren't essential. We went as far as creating some state run corporations, some of them non profit, but we never moved far enough in that direction to truly see how beneficial it can be for the masses to not have to enrich investors when buying food or clothing or renting an apartment...
Oh the guy who only complained and made effective criticisms with no realistic alternative, yeah sounds like a modern communist to me.
regulation falls off the wayside and leads into corruption
And vice versa! Corruption leads to lack of regulation. It's a shit circular dance that I feel like we're doomed to repeat regardless of the economic system we pick.
Agreed. Capitalism is a horrible master but a good slave. Just like we regulated the other forces of nature (like fire) to harness them in our favour, so should we harness market forces to work for us.
Is there a lemmy equivalent to /r/SelfAwareWolves? Because this fits.
Make it and crosspost!
Ah, it exists: !selfawarewolves@lemmy.ml
Hi there! Looks like you linked to a Lemmy community using a URL instead of its name, which doesn't work well for people on different instances. Try fixing it like this: !selfawarewolves@lemmy.ml
selfawarewolves material
The two aren't necessarily mutually exclusive. It's just that capital would grow slower. You can have a green capitalism. It just that no one invested in that
"Think tank" as in circlejerk.
I miss r/PragerUrine. Par for the course for a right wing cesspool
Is there a c/toiletpaperusa?
hey friend I'm new to lemmy. is c/ the new r/ ? like is it denoting the subreddit name? sublemmy?
I think it's been the shorthand that people use because it's so similar to reddit and it's easy to understand.
They're called communities and I don't actually know how to link to a community using the Lemmy format.
I think it's !memes@lemmy.world
Honest question, what economic or political system exists out there that would be better for climate change?
Or is the assumption that system doesn’t exist yet?
Any system that has some growth built into it will eventually cause problems, it's just that some of them, like capitalism, are very efficient at getting us to these points faster. The best system for the climate was discarded long ago, as we moved out of the hunter-gather phase and discovered techniques in maximizing our energy into other things besides just surviving. Agriculture and all that it allowed were the first steps into taxing the earth's balance.
If you want to avoid saying socialism, communism, or true communism (anarchism) then try library economy or gift economy. Some nice examples I've heard.
Except that some of the absolute worst ecological tragedies in the modern world were done in socialist systems, largely because they were inefficient, central planning made it more effective, and people couldn't say no or mitigate it. I honestly think that people use socialism as a catch-all to be a system where they can force through the changes they would prefer to see in the world.
Meanwhile, some of the most effective ecological mitigations of the modern world were done through legislation and regulation of a capitalist system. Example: the banning of CFCs and water management.
It's largely our growth as a population that's caused the issues and it requires drastic action at all levels to live within our means. We can live more sustainably and we are getting there but it does require an efficient system and an educated populous. That results in better regulations on markets that can account for externalities.
Poisoning the waterhole hurts everyone regardless of the system. There needs to be consequences put in place for doing so, and by the international nature of the problem, it requires treaties to get all systems aligned. That takes time and effort and we are getting there.
Except that some of the absolute worst ecological tragedies in the modern world were done in socialist systems
The Dust Bowl. Exxon Valdez. Deepwater Horizon.
You're suggesting heavy regulation of social and economic systems which is the entire point of socialism. You say socialism doesn't work, but that is exactly what you're describing.
And capitalism does not want to exist in a society of international regulation. Those concepts are at odds with one another.
aaannnd?
Best comedy website ever
The climate of the memes of the climate!
Planet is on fire!
mod notice: do not hesitate to report abusive comments, I am not always here.
rules:
no slurs, be polite
don't give an excuse to pollute
no climate denial
and of course: no racism, no homophobia, no antisemitism, no islamophobia, no transphobia
