How about instead this "personal responsibility" bullshit we focus on the actual causes of global warming, I.e. massive corporations that create the majority of greenhouse gasses
Why has it to be either, or? We need both. Systemic and behavioural changes on all levels. And we need it now. We no longer have any time left to shift the blame back and forth! I'm getting so sick of this blame game!
It's 100% personal responsibility, it's just that part of that responsibility is to vote/convince others for more systemic change. All the kids just blaming the "biggest 100 companies" while not voting and making no lifestyle changes are just as bad as the people they critizise.
How about both?
The goalpost for individuals is pushed further to make up for what corporations are doing, which is...(reads notes)...nothing.
I keep reading that. But it's not that simple. Corporations provide what individuals want. Their exploitation of the world's resources and the damage to the climate is a side product of that. They aren't a completely separate entity that do what they do just to be evil.
Governments need to heavily restrict corps and how they operate. Which will come with increased prices and limitations to the people. Which is unpopular and will mean that those politicians won't get back into office...
Which is why nothing will happen and we are all fucked
Yeah, but all the people taking multiple flights a year for weekend getaways aren't solely the responsibility of the "corporations", are they?
Came here to essentially say this. Our individual contributions are meaningless in the face of the abuses by corporations and wealthy individuals.
Do you vote? Because it's the same principle - how one person votes might be irrelevant, but millions of people voting is powerful. This is true even though corporations have outsized influence on the political process.
Likewise, a single person deciding to not eat meat one day a week or replace one car journey with cycling is nothing in the global scheme of things, but a billion people all doing it will have more impact on the environment than any corporation ever could.
If you want people to give up flying you need to give them alternatives. I always choose train if it's available. And for meat we don't have to collectively give up meat, eating less meat (once or twice a week) would be totally efficient in limiting the CO2 emissions
eating less meat (once or twice a week)
I've been doing this a few years now. Trying to slowly introduce more and more new vegetarian/vegan recipes into my life. Worth it, in my opinion.
It’s really not hard. I think the extreme emphasis on going veg/vegan is actually harmful. Just eat less, find good veg recipes, then eat a little less, etc. You can get 90% of the way there and not even miss it much if you do it gradually.
How about you redirect this question to the people actually responsible for setting the planet on fire and inevitably turning my children's futures to smoldering ash? I can only just barely afford to eat meat, certainly not every day, and any form of travel is a distant, impossible pipedream.
This is not my fault or responsibility. Life under capitalism hasn't afforded me that luxury. I do not get to make decisions, they are too expensive.
I gave up both, problem solved lol
I too am poor!
You're extremely not wrong! 😅
Branding is key. You're not poor, you're ✨frugal✨
Just make private jets illegal or tax the fk out of each trip
Ban bunker oil. It's used in shipping container boats. It's the most polluting fuel out there.
Can I keep both and instead hold corporations responsible since they're responsible for like 90% of climate change causes.
No you can't. How do you think those corporations pollute? Do they do it for fun or because they have customers that feed their businesses? The idea that "heading corporations responsible" will magically solve all problems and that it doesn't imply any change in your lifestyle is beyond naive. Shell pollutes because people buy and burn their fuel, they're not burning it in their headquarters.
In fairness, I once worked at a brewery, and the ridiculous and immense water wasting that went on there, as a result of procedures and policies that were simply lazy, were enough to more than overcome all of my water savings in a year, every single day.
They're not doing that because their customers like beer and keep buying it. They're doing that because water is cheap enough that the company doesn't see it as an issue to crack down on, and the workers doing various procedures that use the water can't be bothered to shut it off when they're not using it.
I'm talking even simple applications like a hose used to rinse off some equipment occasionally through a day. Rather than only turn it on when needed, install a shutoff valve closer to where it's being used, or installing a nozzle at the end, they just let the hose run the entire shift, with water running from the hose straight to the drain for the majority of an 8 hour shift, every single day.
Not gonna lie, while I still do lots of little things to save water around my apartment, that experience made me chill out about most measures to save water that were any sort of inconvenience to me at all. I still don't actively and intentionally waste it, but I'm far less strict with myself about it since learning that, as I said, all the water I save in a year is more than undone in a day at that brewery.
Imagine asking yourself this, like flying was ever fucking necessary ever.
Haven't eaten meat for over 10 years. Other than having to manage my feelings of superiority nothing much has changed.
Change needs to be a lot more radical than reducing global CO2 by.. maybe 20%?
If we live plant-based we'll need a lot of less land. We'd need some serious land to free up this land for the wild and rebuild eco systems. And it would still not be enough, because the rising heat will just destroy it anyway.
So expensive sequestering technology at source needs to be made mandatory globally and everybody will feel the hit of that. Producing (and sequestering) CO2 will be so expensive that the market will find viable, cheaper alternatives.
Why are we asking this question, and not asking where all the electrically powered planes and synthetic burgers are?
You don't advance as a civilization by throwing your hands in the air, giving up, and going back to the bad old days. You do it by finding a better way to do what you want to do.
man we need to start being a little more creative, and end all this binary thinking about everything.. THIS OR THAT: CHOOSE there has to be some hybrid solution here.. flying meat of some kind, i don't know, i'm not an architect of meat solutions.. but we have to find creative solutions, that ease transitions for economical reasons and shit.. maybe highly mobile buns..
Fortunately as an individual I don't have to give up either and it's pointless for me as well. As a member of society I will automatically adjust my habits to how we structure society. If society has decided to get rid of cars, then we are free to fly and eat meat while still massively decreasing total greenhouse gases to well below sustainable levels.
For some reason, petroleum industry sponsored "think pieces" like this that proliferate through green communities always structure the problem as an individual one. I wonder why they are always framed that way?
Why not both?
Definitely meat - I’ve been vegetarian for a very long time and vegan since COVID, and no plans of stopping anytime soon! Flying is a bit more difficult, but I work from home and when my work requires me to travel, I’m lucky that I have the ability to take a train, so I do that. I do like traveling occasionally, and for some of the places I want to go, I can’t realistically avoid flying.
If anyone here is interested in giving up or reducing meat intake but needs a little advice or extra support to get started, please let me know. I’m happy to share any knowledge and tips I can!
Flying easy. Flying fucking sucks. Yeah I'd love to get a leg clot for $300 and 6 hours in your packed fart tube. As long as every private jet gets grounded too.
I know it's not your question, but we probably don't have to give up either one. Just do a lot less of it. It's a lot easier to convince people to do less or seek viable alternatives than to give it up.
There's also a good chance that both will become greener with better, greener tech.
Givung up meat is 100 times easier.
Every market sells rice, beans, and veggies. But I'm still looking for that trans oceanic passenger ferry.
i gave up meat some 15+ years ago. easy peasy.
Meat for sure. Giving up flying means giving up seeing my family. Probably one of the last things I would sacrifice, personally.
Flying, I haven't been on a plane in 25 years, and I have no plans to ever get on one again. But I love a good steak.
I haven't had a reason to fly since 2004, and I last ate meat 3 hours ago. I think my answer is obvious.
Since I fly only like once every 20 years, I say neither.
I'd give up both. Remember the week of global lockdown and people in India realized they could see the mountain range from their home? Fucking pollution, everywhere had amazing air quality for that week
If I got 3x the vacation time from work to let me travel by oceanliner or airship I’d happily stop flying — but that would never happen. So instead we just have to use discretion for both. Eat more mushrooms & beans; take trips closer to home by rail. And yes once in a while enjoy a nice steak or take a trip overseas. Moderation is key.
Definitely meat. I'm omnivorous now, but have been vegan for years and vegetarian years before that. Its actually ideal if you can afford it/ find the right dumpsters.
I have not found an efficient and fast way to travel across the ocean as i am not an experienced large vessel sailor and/or do not have access to a deep ocean worthy vessel.
Meat. I live on the other side of the country from my family, and the only way I can have enough time to visit them is by some form of high speed transit. Since there’s no high speed train in the US, I’m stuck flying.
I'd do both and gladly. I've already reduced both significantly below average.
Meat probably. I need to travel for work.
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