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submitted 1 year ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

Russia says Ukraine targeted Moscow with drones on Sunday, the latest in a series of attacks that have brought the Ukraine war to Russia’s capital.

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[-] Raildrake@lemmy.world 60 points 1 year ago

People can turn away from supporting a war pretty quickly when it suddently reaches your doorstep.

[-] bluGill@kbin.social 24 points 1 year ago

Or they can become more in favor of it.

[-] frazw@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Yeah suddenly the "nazi" regime is "attacking". When you see yourselves as the heroic liberators, being attacked on your home turf comes across as evil aggression, instead of what it really is. 0.0001% of the pain you've inflicted being returned to you.

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[-] Hogger85b@kbin.social 6 points 1 year ago

That was my take, given Putin history of the checyen false flag I was almost thinking false flag to get home support, it is only the fact Kyiv, while not actively admitting, still hint at responsible that changed mind. It does seem a odd tactic going for such a dense civilian heavily defended area for little advantage in stopping war machine.

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is not what has ever happened at any point in time historically, I actually can't think of a single example. When war is on the doorstep support for your own side typically hardens massively.

The times where populations have turned against wars have always been when the troops are fighting far away from home in lands that the home population feels they shouldn't be dying in.

This will only make people cling to support for the military because they rely on it for personal safety.

[-] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

Then they can watch their entire country burn. FAFO. Slava Ukraini.

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Mate you're advocating for a genocide against civilians. That's not acceptable, and all you're doing by writing this stuff online is creating content that Russians read and think to themselves "wow, the west really are fascists that want to murder us all". It doesn't help, it ends up getting used to reinforce the propaganda.

[-] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

They're the ones doing the genociding and supporting the genociding. They're the ones supporting the butchers of Bucha and the siege of Mariupol. They're the ones taking selfies in the ruins of Ukrainian homes for aesthetics.

What would you have done when the Nazis invaded Poland? Would you have wrung hands at the bombing of Dresden and Tokyo?

I made my choice. I joined the strategic nuclear fleet as an SSBN sailor. Sometimes the only language a nation will understand is force.

[-] FordBeeblebrox@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

I’m claustrophobic so picked jumping out of planes instead but same idea. It’s fuckin wild to me that we spent 40 years arming up to fight Ivan and now half the country wants to hand them the keys to the football just to own the libs. They fucked around and are finding out that our old dusty shit off the shelf is eating them alive in properly motivated hands. Oh well

Slava Ukraini

[-] wanderingmagus@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Hooyah Airborne! You're braver than me, jumping out of a perfectly functional airplane. I'd rather get turned to plasma faster than I can register than plummet as my chute fails to deploy, but different strokes for different folks. Salute to your bravery. Good luck out in the field.

Heroyam Slava!

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[-] Mayoman68@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

Mate I don't think most russian people are reading an obscure, western primarily english speaking social media site, and the ones that are are probably more likely to be against the war.

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[-] btaf45@lemmy.world 8 points 1 year ago

That is not what has ever happened at any point in time historically, I actually can’t think of a single example.

Russia in 1917

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[-] MostlyBirds@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

That is not what has ever happened at any point in time historically, I actually can’t think of a single example.

There are countless historical examples of cities and nations surrendering without a fight when faced with attack. Just look at the Mongol conquests for an obvious starting point.

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[-] gummybootpiloot@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

It usually has the opposite effect and hardens resolve

[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 17 points 1 year ago

Press X to doubt.

Everyone is a badass until bullets start whizzing by your ass.

[-] pm_boobs_send_nudes@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

By that logic Ukraine would have capitulated by now...

[-] madcaesar@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Agression and defense are very different motivators.

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[-] SamsonSeinfelder@feddit.de 40 points 1 year ago

The damage is pretty mild compared to the ruins that Russia created with their missiles on major ukrainian cities. If moscovits are shaking bacause 10 windows of a single story got damaged, they are invited to ukraine and see what they are doing to the civil population there.

[-] LazaroFilm@lemmy.film 8 points 1 year ago

When mosquito is a nuisance, but 1000 mosquitoes is a real threat.

[-] Buddahriffic@lemmy.world 38 points 1 year ago

Good shit Ukraine, hope you figure out ways to counter their counters.

[-] MicroWave@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago
[-] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 3 points 1 year ago

surprised pikachu

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[-] Johnvanjim@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago

Any facts or verification that this was actually done by Ukraine? Seems like it’d be pretty on point for Russian propaganda to throw a few drones at themselves to whip up fervor. Not to mention the fact that it could’ve been done by partisans in Russia itself. I’d label either of those more likely than Ukrainian attacks on civilian infrastructure.

[-] MostlyBirds@lemmy.world 14 points 1 year ago

The fact that Ukraine claims responsibility is a pretty strong indicator. Who else do you think would have done it?

[-] awwwyissss@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

The Kremlin, as a false flag attack to justify something like broader mobilization.

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[-] tvbusy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

The West insisted that their weapons are not to be used inside Russia. I don't think Ukraine would want to risk the supply of weapons for small political gains.

[-] yata@sh.itjust.works 7 points 1 year ago

The Beaver is Ukrainian produced.

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[-] echodot@feddit.uk 4 points 1 year ago

When I first heard the news I actually automatically assumed that's what had happened.

[-] Jaysyn@kbin.social 17 points 1 year ago
[-] Prandom_returns@lemm.ee 9 points 1 year ago

Can someone explain how they can fly drones that far?

Or is it someone stationed locally who's soing the control?

[-] Hogger85b@kbin.social 5 points 1 year ago

These are partially remote human guided missiles

[-] kionite231@lemmy.ca 9 points 1 year ago

I hope it didn't kill any civilians.

[-] mayo@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fair, but also almost strangely off kilter comment? Idk. I hope when Russia bombs Ukranian cities no one gets hurt but that clearly doesn't happen. Hate to 'whatabout' you but one solid strike against Moscow is hardly triggering my sympathy for them.

[-] kebabslob 11 points 1 year ago

Civilian deaths are bad no matter what side. Leave the soapboxing, armchair warrior stuff back at Reddit please and realize there's no room for nuance when discussing human, civilian life. Not every Russian is bad...

[-] Tangent5280@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

Get your centrist, inaction supporting take here boys, free for all, one per person please.

[-] poplargrove@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

I don't know anything about war, are attacks like this acceptable? Doesn't it risk killing civilians?

[-] SpicyPeaSoup@kbin.social 27 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

If russia doesn't like it, it can leave Ukraine and stop these attacks.

[-] venusenvy47@lemm.ee 4 points 1 year ago

Agreed. Tit for tat doesn't begin to describe the "Tat" that Russia has been flinging into Ukraine.

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[-] SloganLessons@kbin.social 16 points 1 year ago

Unfortunately they are, if enough justification exists. In WW2, both the Allies and Axis would bombard cities with civilians if those had any strategic value (military industries, disruption of logistics, sometimes because soldiers were inside the houses, etc).

Other times, it was to try out hypothesis. Germany started to bombard London to see if the population would become demoralised and demand the government to capitulate. The US sent the infamous Hiroshima and Nagasaki Nuclear Bombs, because they believed the japanese military would not capitulate through conventional means (I recommend reading more about the pacific war if you're interested, but the bottom line here is that most japanese soldiers were expected to fight to the death, and the US could not treat them like a western power. The nuclear bombs were a bet that they could avoid having to invade Japan itself)

And to be honest things didn't change that much since then. There might be more awareness of how awful it is, some countries might need better justifications than others before targeting cities, but they do it. The US did it in the middle east, Russia too, etc.

From my average joe point of view, this attack didn't target anything with strategic value, but the attack itself is a message that Ukraine can reach Moscow.

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this post was submitted on 30 Jul 2023
252 points (100.0% liked)

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