Why is there no automation like https://github.com/flathub/com.bitwig.BitwigStudio/commits/master/ ?
Flatpak is not the future
./configure && make && sudo make install is not the future
Well... of course only time will tell, but the fact that we've been doing that for sooo long... (me for ~20 years?) would imply that it might just be around for longer than snap/flatpak/etc
Of course, sometimes it's disguised as yay -S...
What is ?
I'd say flatpak isn't the future because it's already here and seems to be universally accepted as the cross-distro package manager.
I do like how the Nix package manager handles dependencies, but it's not suitable for app developers packaging their own apps because of its complexity.
If a better flatpak comes around I'd use it too, but at least for graphical apps I don't know what it'd have to do to be better. In my opinion, flatpak is a prime example of good enough, but not perfect and I'd be surprised if there was a different tool with the same momentum in 15 years (except snap, but they seem too Ubuntu specific).
Snap is shit. I started using flatpak because apt didn't support apps that I wanted and snap only supported ancient releases. .deb is annoying too and .appimage I don't like to have the files hanging there
Ubuntu may have convinced some proprietary developers, but Snaps are shit and devs know that I think
I left Ubuntu when apt wouldn't let me install a native package. It just would redirect to a broken snap.
(except snap, but they seem too Ubuntu specific).
For what it is worth you can install Snap on most distros. https://snapcraft.io/docs/installing-snapd
But you can’t run your own snap repo
Not officially but people have managed to reverse engineer it before in order to host their own - https://forum.snapcraft.io/t/lol-an-open-source-snap-server-implementation/27109
Whilst I do get the sentiment (and in no way do I support Canonical in keeping it proprietary), how likely is it that alternative Snap repos are going to show up if they did make it possible? Even with Flatpak where it is encouraged and documented I don't think I've heard of anyone setting up a Flathub alternative of any significance.
elementary has their own repo for their system apps
I didn’t know about the self-hosted snap stores, thanks for pointing it out!
And I wasn't aware of the Elementary thing with Flatpak! Admittedly I hadn't really thought of it in that way, I was thinking something more akin to F-droid where there are a couple of extra repos you can add which have applications not on the main one due to slightly looser requirements. But making it specifically for apps for that ecosystem in particular makes a lot of sense.
Fedora also has their own flatpak remote, which only includes flatpaks build from Fedora rpms.
For what it is worth you can install Snap on most distros. https://snapcraft.io/docs/installing-snapd
Snap is a cesspool for malware and shovel ware. The best apps are packaged by Canonical. Also, when people still cared about Snap, there were frequent reports of incompatibilities because it was developed with Ubuntu in mind.
but you shouldnt because snap's "strict confinement' sandbox feature does not work without the legacy patches to Apparmor that ubuntu uses.
No idea
Apt or distro package manager of choice.
No, APT is the past 20 years.
They lack packages
Use arch with AUR, and cross your fingers that at least someone checks the changes. I sure don't.
it sure seems like it though
i mean, they'll never replace system package manager, but for desktop applications, flatpak is honestly quite good
(Not incredibly educated on Flatpaks, please educate me if I'm wrong) My main issue with Flatpak is the bundled dependancies. I really prefer packages to come bundled with the absolute bare minimum, as part of the main appeal of Linux for me is the shared system wide dependancies. Flatpak sort of seems to throw that ideology out the window.
Let me ask this (genuinely asking, I'm not a software developer and I'm curious why this isn't a common practice), why aren't "portable" builds of software more common? Ie, just a folder with the executable that you can run from anywhere? Would these in theory also need to come bundled with any needed dependancies? Or could they simply be told to seek out the ones already installed on the system? Or would this just depend on the software?
I ask this because in my mind, a portable build of a piece of software seems like the perfect middle ground between a native, distro specific build and a specialized universal packaging method like Flatpak.
well, the point of flatpak is to have bundled dependencies so they run predictably no matter the distro
if one of your software's dependency gets updated, and your software isn't, you may run into issues - like a function from the library you're using getting removed, or its behaviour changing slightly. and some distros may also apply patches to some of their library that breaks stuff too!
often, with complex libraries, even when you check the version number, you may have behavioural differences between distros depending on the compile flags used (i.e. some features being disabled, etc.)
so, while in theory portable builds work, for them to be practical, they most often are statically linked (all the dependencies get built into the executable - no relying on system libraries). and that comes with a huge size penalty, even when compared to flatpaks, as those do have some shared dependencies between flatpaks! you can for example request to depend on a specific version of the freedesktop SDK, which will provide you with a bunch of standard linux tools, and that'll only get installed once for every package you have that uses it
wrong answer sound
Why is the flatpak not verified on flathub? Hmm
From the conversation it seems to be a similar situation to the project I'm with is in. The flatpak is essentially community maintained rather than being directly supported by the team. To become verified it needs to be done so by a representative of the maintainers of the software. To be verified it doesn't have to have a team member involved in it but this is a requirement Inkscape seem to have imposed.
For us we just aren't in a position to want to support it officially just yet, we have some major upgrades coming to our underlying tech stack that will introduce a whole bunch of stuff that will allow various XDG portals etc. to work properly with the Flatpak sandboxing model. To support it now would involve tons of workarounds which would need to be removed later.
Thanks for the valuable insight.
Thank you for all your hard work and explanation 🙏👍
Why is the flatpak not verified on flathub? Hmm
Because it's not by upstream Inkscape, apparently.
Wait till you learn that your flatpak client doesn't verify anything it downloads
For checksums: https://github.com/flathub/flathub/issues/1498#issuecomment-649098123
Flatpak does verify the integrity of files as it is downloading/installing them. For ostree remotes this is done using GPG signatures (which are better than mere checksums). If you want to see the commit ID (which is like a checksum) for something on flathub use e.g. flatpak remote-info -c flathub org.gnome.Builder and for the local copy flatpak info -c org.gnome.Builder. For OCI remotes we at least check SHA256 sums and there might be more integrity verification mechanisms I'm unaware of.
But for signatures: https://github.com/flatpak/flatpak-builder/issues/435
Oficial repositories, unoficial repositories, flatpak, snap... What happened to just donwload the app from it's own creator and install on your machine? Why do we need every app being touched by some rando before I can install it on my box?
Your wanted option is not gone, you can still download the binaries if the author presents them; or you can compile it from source. This is just another, more convenient way to distribute the program.
If you are looking to get your programs Windows-style, to download a binary or "install wizard", then you can look into appimages.
Like any form of distribution however: someone has to offer this, be it the author or "some rando".
Appimages have no install wizard. And Windows executables have some weird signature verification which Appimages dont have at all.
And Windows executables have some weird signature verification which Appimages dont have at all.
EDIT:
Appimages have no install wizard.
Appimagelauncher, gearlever, AM, etc. Which is the same as a install wizard since it integrates the appimage into the system. AppImages do not need to be extracted into the system which is what windows install wizards do.
True. Still the most windows-like installation method.
If you mean downloading random stuff from random websites, yes.
But they dont have installers, so no verification, no moving to locations where executing is allowed (on Linux the entire home is executable which is a huge security issue) no desktop integration, no context menu, no file associations.
What happened to just donwload the app from it’s own creator and install on your machine?
You have that option with the appimage, inkscape releases it themselves.
Thats how packaging works.
On Android I use Obtainium, as the package manager deals with signature verification. On Linux, Flatpak is the only equivalent to Android apps.
RustDesk is the only Flatpak not from Flathub I use, because they have messed up permissions.
Because it is better?
!boinc@sopuli.xyz flatpak also needs a flatpak maintainer! Your work would help people contribute their spare computational power to scientific research. If you are passionate about fighting cancer, mapping the galaxy, etc this is an awesome way to contribute to that effort in a very force multiplying way.
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