but... they do fund the meat alternatives. thry literally pay money for that shit? I guess thst's ehy it's a shitpost
I'm not even a vegetarian and I've heard way more fellow meat eaters fucking constantly bitching about vegans than I've ever heard vegans being annoying about it.
Just feels like whiny baby bullshit honestly.
Tbf, there are way more non-vegans than there are vegans. I feel like this should be expected to an extent. This meme is dumb though. What vegan is out there calling non-vegans rapists?
What vegan is out there calling non-vegans rapists?
I've been told that before. Not being vegan implies you support terrible breeding practices which makes you a rapist... apparently... Which is especially dumb considering nobody likes the terrible breeding practices to begin with
Nobody likes the practice, the difference is that vegans take a moral stand and choose not to contribute to it, while meat eaters shrug it off and continue to pay the people committing those acts, because they'd rather cows get anally fisted and forcibly impregnated than drink a milk with a different flavour.
They're overpaying for them. Which then makes companies calculate "we could sell a lot of product at small profit margins to the general vegetarian and flexi public" vs. "we could not invest in production capacity and charge affluent urban vegans and arm and a leg" and guess what they're going for.
The reason why there's tons of almond etc. milks costing 3-4 times as much per litre as actual milk is not because of subsidies. It's because vegans are stupid enough to buy 20 cents of ingredients for that price.
You should open an almond milk store, undercut the big boys, and make a fortune.
You know what's "funny". Vegans DO fund not only alternatives but also meat subsidies with the taxes on vegan food. For meat to be as cheap as it is, a lot of tax money is going into the industry
Also, who says vegans don't support these ventures and call people murderers at the same time. We can have both.
The screaming, raging, seething and antagonizing only serves to make people less receptive to such ventures.
The best thing for a vegan to do is to keep being a vegan. Seriously, just keep on doing it.
It doesn't mean evangelise, it doesn't mean denigrate, it means just carry on doing what works for you.
If you're insulting other folks, or trying to push a lifestyle, odds are folks don't dislike you because you're vegan.
idk, I'm a meat eater and if it wasn't for vegans evangelizing I really wouldn't know how messed up meat production is. We allow some seriously cruel shit to fellow sentient beings, far beyond just killing them, and no one wants to think about it.
This is ironic because the argument concedes vegan ideology, it's just attacks them for not doing more. At this point the carnists are not really arguing, they're negotiating terms of surrender.
Most meat consumers already suspect vegans are right. We get aggravated because we'd rather ignore that question. And a vegan threatens to force the issue, even in our own mind. If you've ever wondered why vegans inspire automatic hostility, ridicule, and derision it's because they threaten a carnists identity as a good person just by existing.
Nope. Vegans are fine. Veganist like you are religious nut jobs. You've created narratives and then act like anyone who doesn't agree with you is the bad guy. Not unlike the far right or any other extremist group.
That feeling of your existence being a threat is the same feeling any other authoritarian feels.
anyone who doesn’t agree with you is the bad guy.
You seem a little defensive. Threatened even.
I'm sure you perceive it that way, as you already said you perceive being a threat. You appear to take pride in it.
Couldn't be less threatened by you. Your abstinence reduces price competition for meat products. You are restricting yourself such that it benefits me.
The real threat in this regard are the boomers who eat more meat products than other generations.
I feel I should donate a quarter head of beef to a local food pantry in your name as tribute and to show there are no ill feelings. At least from me. I doubt you feel the same towards me.
I consider myself a flexitarian, I adopt puppies, give them a good life till they're about 2 years old, then humanely slaughter them and eat them. The stuff I don't eat I backfeed to the next round of puppies.
I am so with this post, what I do is so much more sustainable and humane than anything that happens on a farm. Extremists harrassing me should fund lab grown meat instead. Really this is more ethical than eating beans because of crop deaths.
Your mistake here was saying "puppies" too early. You have to lead with a couple paragraphs of how you're a flexitarian who has a farm and humanely raised animals like pets and then slaughters and feed them to your family.
Then list off the animals you exploit, cows, pigs, dogs, chickens, cats and ducks. Then their brain gets hit with the dissonance of "wait why did I support this and then stop the second they said 'dog'?" That jarring experience can work for the intellectually honest type.
Saying it too early means they can categorize your post as satire easily and not engage with it at all mentally.
Eh, mostly I'm just pointing out how stupid this is to anyone with half a brain in their head.
We have animal rights legislation and morals for reasons, and nobody who like protests whaling gets criticised for not growing fake whale meat. You might disagree on where the line should be but it's just outing yourself as someone with underdeveloped theory of mind if you don't understand why people might feel strongly about it being further down the tree of life.
I get so scared to interact with the vegan users on here. And I am on their side.
But like why do I see people getting harrassed and banned for like admitting out loud they love cheese too much so that they haven’t been able to find a replacement yet but they are looking?
Why does veganism manifest in such a scary way here? Speaking as someone who participates in non-scary vegan commities 😭I wish the vegan movement so much success and I don’t want that to result in a schism on here but I feel like doing harrassment and name calling doesn’t work well. Just like, be kind.
Look at it like that: Many people become vegan because they realize that there is no magical difference between humans (or dogs, cats and so on) and the animals who are raised to be slaughtered. We all feel pain, fear and grief. So a society that kills sentient animals and eats or wears parts of their dead bodies is not too different then one which does that with their fellow humans. How angry would you be to live in such a horrible society?
The only reason to not being angry all the time is, that I needed more than 30 years to realize those things myself. How we are handling most animals, how we are torturing and killing them is normalized. It is really hard to get from "steak yummy" to a vegan world view. How can I expect that other people change their ways just like that?
It is still fucking sad and I totally get, why some vegans are so angry. Live and let live is the most cynical shit one could say in this situation.
I'm a mean vegan because I used to be a carnist, and mean vegans changed my mind. The people on vegancirclejerk are fucking hilarious. I stayed for the memes, and then I changed my diet because I felt guilty. The best possible thing you can do as a vegan is make carnists feel guilty. It works.
Interesting. I was a triggered vegetarian and didn't like those guys calling me a cheese breather (I'm still ambivalent towards them). When I became a vegan it was because of the non-drastic stating a fact people, not because of the jerks.
So maybe we need both – and many more forms of activism?
MLK said it best, so I'll just quote him directly:
I must confess that over the past few years I have been gravely disappointed with the white moderate. I have almost reached the regrettable conclusion that the Negro’s great stumbling block in his stride toward freedom is not the White Citizen’s Counciler or the Ku Klux Klanner, but the white moderate, who is more devoted to “order” than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says: “I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I cannot agree with your methods of direct action”; who paternalistically believes he can set the timetable for another man’s freedom; who lives by a mythical concept of time and who constantly advises the Negro to wait for a “more convenient season.”
When moderates advocate for "kindness" or "civility", they're advocating for negative peace; the absence of tension. Vegans advocate for positive peace; the presence of justice. When activists advocate for positive peace, in the face of those who deny said justice, tensions rise and moderates fall back to this common trope.
Holy shit you did not just quote MLK at me saying people who eat cheese should not be harrassed!
That is a disturbing twisting of both veganism and MLK. :(
Once again I participate with so many vegan individuals in ways that do not involve harrassment campaigns. Here is a list of direct action that I consider constructive:
Again I cannot believe I am saying this, but there is no credible evidence that MLK participated in harrassment against individuals admitting minor disagreement. Attacking a person who admits to eating cheese, like maybe 60% of the world population, accusing them of being a rapist constantly and repeatedly, and calling that “advocacy for positive peace,” is really really fucking sad. It is absolutely terrifyingly in bad faith to quote MLK in defense of such behavior.
disclaimer
Maybe this isn’t you, I haven’t checked your account history so keep that in mind. You have my apologies if you aren’t doing verbal abuse. :)
My criticisms of others in the Lemmy community who do verbal attacks do hold, though. I am just glad they are the minority in real life and only seem to exist online.
I'm not a vegan (yet) but I have a lot of respect for those who are. I would love to see some developments in cruelty-free lab grown meat and just hope it won't be full of shit.
Nooooo, because shame and insults are clearly the best ways to get people to switch over to your ideology. /s
Can't help but notice the sudden influx of downvotes for any comment that isn't making the claim that all farmers fuck cows. It's almost like some kind of brigade.
the post was in the top10 of "active" in /all, so everyone gets a vote, and it IS a topic where emotions tend to run high, regardless of stance to the topic, so thats to be expected
Former vegan, long term vegetarian; I don't even like telling people I am a vegetarian because of the agresive ones.
If you want a meat alternative try black bean burgers or falafel. Both are solid options.
Sticking up for animals is so aggressive
You won't convince people if you act like a jerk. You will convince people if you are a good cook.
This post reminded me why I had this community blocked for several months until recently.
This comment section gonna be spicy~
Tbh I kinda agree with you, calling someone a murderer or rapist for eating meat is overboard; however the biggest issue I have is the pretentious and self-righteous attitude that vegans have. Like, cool, you don't eat meat, good for you! I agree that commercially raised farm animals are often abused, and that even animals raised by small, private farms don't always get to lead their best lives.^1 At the same time though, you're not making your cause look good.
Yes, I might honestly be a better person if I stop eating meat, dairy and buying any form of animal product; but I'm also gonna be associated with assholes with overinflated egos. I'm distanced enough from the slaughter that the overinflated ego is more of a turnoff than the slaughtering of animals.
Is that how it should be? No, but that's how humans usually work. The object perceived to be closer is a higher priority than the object perceived to be further away. Animal slaughter is perceived as being further away than being associated with assholes, so the fear of being associated with assholes is a greater "threat" than the inhumane treatment of animals.
Be a vegan if you want, or don't. You're honestly probably a better, healthier person if you're vegan (though you probably have your head up your ass about it), because your diet and spending habits are less likely to contribute to climate change, animal cruelty, and because you have to be conscious about what you eat, your food is likely healthier.
Just... Don't be an ass about it, dude.
Instead of accusing people of being "carnists", talk about a good (totally-not-vegan) dish you had recently. Instead of accusing people of murder, talk about the pros and cons of real leather vs faux leather.^2 Instead of telling people they're animal rapists, talk about new sources of cow's milk.
I swear I recently read about a technically vegan blue cheese that won and then got disqualified from a cheese competition because the milk it was made from was technically synthetic cow's milk that had been derived from fungi or something. Talk about that shit. That is pretty fucking cool. Fungus milk that's virtually identical to cow's milk? That's awesome!
Meat eating and the damage it causes is far off in most people's rear-view mirrors, and many people don't know or don't have time to find ways of getting off the meat highway. They don't know about alternatives or up-and-coming technologies related to meat substitutes. Being an ass is only going to turn people away; if you really care, then you'll understand that you have to take people's hands and take baby steps with them. And no, you can't get angry when they mess up. You're helping a baby to walk, if you get angry then they'll just get angry, demoralized, frustrated with you or themselves, or something else, and you risk them giving up. If you actually care though, then you don't want them to give up, and that means you have to grit your teeth and bear it when they complain about how something sucks or admit they have a "guilty pleasure" like dairy ice cream.
Some additional notes:
^1 imo meat should only be harvested from animals that have died from age-related causes. "But the meat will be too tough!" Yeah? Hispanic people figured out how to deal with that a long time ago. Make fajitas! I still eat meat anyway though, despite knowing they're slaughtered and don't die of old age.
^2 when it comes to leather, my experience is that natural leather lasts a lot longer than faux leather, and faux leather tends to use plastics. Additionally, I've heard that while "leather is a byproduct of the meat industry" is mostly a myth, it's my understanding that there are "ethical" ways of getting leather, e.g. by taking cast-offs that'd normally be trashed, leather harvested from animals that have died from old age; you just have to be very conscious about where you're buying leather from. I'd be curious if anyone knows about any non-petroleum-based faux or lab-grown leathers. I mean, it's literally just skin, how hard can it really be to grow that in a lab?
I love being an annoying vegan because it was annoying vegans who made me go vegan. I was once like you, I knew the animal ag industry was fucked, but I still liked eating meat and dairy. Then eventually the cognitive dissonance caught up to me and I realised that enjoying meat and dairy wasn't a good enough excuse to support a cruel industry that is quite literally destroying the planet.
At least you're not in denial about what you're supporting and you're not spreading misinformation. I'm chill with that, but I think you're wrong about what's effective at converting people to veganism.
PS: people make pineapple and cactus leathers nowadays, I've heard of a mushroom based one, too. Not sure on how the durability and longevity compares just yet but it seems pretty tough so far. Also not sure on the processes involved and how 'clean' they are.
I have removed way too many posts for incivility, so I will be locking this thread and going through it to remove the rest.
Just because you feel strongly about a subject does not give you reason to break rule 1.
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