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submitted 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago) by spujb@lemmy.cafe to c/196

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Screenshot shows three comments being removed from !196@lemmy.blahaj.zone (this community) by one of 196’s mods with the reason for removal being “.” (literally just a period).

I looked into this and discovered that the comments were just some fairly polite, if snarky, comments in response to the mod themselves. I could not identify a reason for comment removal per the site or community rules, so if there was one, “.” doesn’t cut it.

This is a callout post y’all. Do better. Start putting actual moderation reasons into the modlog for the benefit of you and other mods, otherwise what is the point of a transparent and federated platform?

As of now, it looks like the mod involved is just using their mod powers in a self-serving fashion. I am not making that accusation now, but that’s how it looks.

Please and thank you. Mods here do an excellent job keeping 196 on Lemmy a bearable place to be, and I know you are already struggling to staff the positions, but please also hold one another accountable when it comes to misuse of power. Thanks :)

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[-] queue 339 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Alright, I'll try to do better. I will say that while this doesn't defend my actions, I've been under a high amount of stress in the last 2 weeks. If people want, I will resign as mod without question.

EDIT: Restored the posts with "Restored due to community feedback/me being a dick."

EDIT 2: I am going to do some shopping and chores, if the community wants me gone, I will remove myself when I am back, or have the mod team boot me.

[-] thanks_shakey_snake@lemmy.ca 215 points 5 months ago

That's pretty cool of you to show up to the conversation in good faith tbh.

[-] queue 163 points 5 months ago

Mainly because I sometimes need a reality check. I agreed to be a mod here at a normal point of the last year, and the last ~5 months have been putting so much weird shit in my brain it's not been healthy.

[-] blindbunny@lemmy.ml 123 points 5 months ago

Wtf is this mindfulness on the fucking Internet. This MF a real one.

[-] queue 83 points 5 months ago

I try to be. Not always.

[-] 50MYT@aussie.zone 55 points 5 months ago

Respect.

[-] drislands@lemmy.world 46 points 5 months ago

Honestly mad respect for owning it. No one's perfect all the time, and it takes a lot of courage to be able to admit when those mistakes happen.

In my opinion, that makes you MORE qualified to be a mod -- not less.

[-] nickhammes@lemmy.world 27 points 5 months ago

Yeah I'd rather see an Internet community keep a mod who has shown they're capable of introspection then they made a mistake, than try and pretend they can find a new mod who won't make mistakes.

[-] Gormadt 50 points 5 months ago

Anyone who says being a mod for a community is easy has never been one

That shit is hella hard on your mental health

IMO an ideal mod team is one where there's enough mods that all of them only have to head over to their community once every few days so that it doesn't become overwhelming

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[-] YarHarSuperstar@lemmy.world 11 points 5 months ago

I feel this deeply. I don't think you should have to leave over this unless there is a large community sentiment that it's time.

[-] Barbarian@sh.itjust.works 169 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Gonna throw my hat into the ring here and say this kind of self-reflection and improvement is exactly how communities of any kind improve.

People have problems, stress and issues. This shit happens. The ability to say "I fucked up", then fix the fuckup and prevent similar fuckups happening in future is how we as a global society improve and become better people.

In short: everyone should attempt to be better, that's all anyone can ask.

[-] IzzyScissor@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

Completely agree. I understand that as of now, Queue has stepped down as a mod, but I hope that at such a time in the future where their mental health is better that they will return. The ability to say, 'You're right. I'm too stressed to properly do this right now. Here's what I'll do instead' is incredibly appreciated.

That's the kind of person I WANT as a mod, provided that they actually take the time to de-stress, reflect and come back as a better person.

[-] nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 53 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I think that your willingness to self-examine, admit fault, and attempt to make amends speaks well of your character and suitability as a mod (if you desire to continue and it is healthy for you to do so). You come across as genuine and willing to try to listen and self-correct.

We all have bad days/weeks/months/years. It's unfortunately just part of being human. And we all do things that we may not think are necessarily right when reflecting on them, often because of emotional state, etc. That's ok. Yeah, it may cause some hurt or upset, and damage that we do may not always be repairable but, that's just life as a social being. As long as you try to do better, there's nothing more anyone can legitimately ask of you. Personal growth and emotional health isn't linear - don't beat yourself up if you hit a rut. You're human; screwing up is one of our species' greatest talents.

Please take care of yourself and see what you can do to address stressors in your life, where possible. Your well-being is more important and any moderation queue. If taking some time away is needed but you wish to continue, please coordinate with the other mods to get it.

[-] Catoblepas 41 points 5 months ago

I wasn’t involved in the post in question, but FWIW I appreciate you taking feedback into account and putting the posts back up. Everyone’s human and is going to make sub-optimal calls sometimes, being open to fixing it is basically the best that can be asked for.

I don’t want you to resign over this or anything like that, but please do take care of yourself even if that means taking some time away. If internet modding is adding to your stress in an already stressed time, you gotta put on your own oxygen mask first before you assist others, you know?

[-] queue 29 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Fair enough, but I sometimes feel like "if no one will clean up the mess, who will?" in most things in life. Small and big, trivial and actual problems. From "if I don't do the dishes, who will?" to "If there's a flood of Mod requests, and everyone else is busy, I should deal with it."

Being an online moderator is simultaneous the most trival and easy task and "I can't believe people say these things, why do I have to clean up the messes users leave with zero thinking behind them?"

I recently left a role as a voted in admin of something since I grew tired of moderating my friends and the straw that broke the camels back was during the self-immolation protest a few months back

spoiler

Two people heavily implied if not directly said that if anyone in the server didn't want to do it themselves, they are a false ally and why socialism never took root in America.

Really was dumbfounded by such a take that I screenshot the chat logs for clarity, removed the chat, banned them, and resigned as admin and told my friends "If you wanna hang with me still, I'll be here in this place, otherwise I'm done being here."

Sometimes people just say the dumbest things online, I'm one of those people sometimes.

[-] Catoblepas 12 points 5 months ago

Having modded internet forums in the past I totally get it, especially anything queer related is going to attract just the absolute trash of the internet. It’s legitimately distressing for many people to see that shit all day even if you’re getting paid for it, but on a volunteer basis? It’s basically a miracle anywhere is modded at all, much less in a timely manner.

It sounds like there were some jackasses on that server. There’s probably someone smarter than me that’s explored the concept of forum moderation as emotional labor which is expected to be performed and devalued; but in lieu of that I’ll just say don’t discount the effort you put in. If it was so easy everyone could do it then there would never be a lack of mods or disagreement about modding (which, LMAO).

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[-] skulblaka@startrek.website 28 points 5 months ago

This statement by itself restores a ton of my faith in you. I have no weight to throw around here and ultimately my opinion is more or less meaningless, but in my meaningless opinion, if an actual effort is made to improve on this then I'm happy to have you stay. A simple apology, explanation and promise is more than I've gotten out of 99% of all other moderators I've ever interacted with.

[-] Olgratin_Magmatoe@lemmy.world 20 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I have no horse in this race, but the fact that you're being communicative and taking any responsibility means you're probably a better mod than most. Admittedly, it's a low bar but still.

Probably best not to do it again though.

[-] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 18 points 5 months ago

Bit of a waste to have someone learn how to mod properly then have them leave, no?

[-] queue 20 points 5 months ago

Been a mod before, but I'm at least taking a leave for a bit to just reduce mental load. If I do stay, this is something to keep in mind.

[-] PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 16 points 5 months ago

Take care of yourself. I hope things chill out a bit for you.

[-] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 16 points 5 months ago

Yes, please step down and go away.

[-] tourist@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

. incoming

[-] queue 22 points 5 months ago

[-] queue 14 points 5 months ago

I'll at least be taking a break as a mod for a bit, after talking to Moss and the others.

[-] funky_rodent 129 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Thank you for that call out, we will discuss this with the other mods and make sure that removing and banning reasons are used transparently

In the meantime I would love to remind y'all that we are moderating this forum in our free time as volunteers, it takes time and capacity. Sometimes it works better sometimes it doesn't

Feel free to write in the mod-application post if you feel like becoming a mod here would help.

Best wishes and a good night from Germany Funky-rodent

[-] MindTraveller@lemmy.ca 16 points 5 months ago

Meh. Y'all get more than enough applications every time. I don't think it's fair to complain about having a position of power over everyone else that you could ditch in a heartbeat if you wanted to. I don't think users owe moderators patience. Rule following, yes. Patience, no.

[-] Daxter101 23 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Bruh what are you talking about. The "We need mods" post is still pinned in the community, first thing everyone sees when they browse the community itself.

This is not just power, it's also a demanding service, done out of responsibility and goodwill, and that is proven by this accountability-seeking post itself we're in.

We're a long, long way from being Reddit, as of yet.

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[-] funky_rodent 12 points 5 months ago

Ya, I guess I could get a power-rush easier in my life :D Sifting through reports and reading mean stuff just doesn't tickle that spot for me.

I am a social worker in real life and think of modding more as a service than, power-governing. I like the fediverse and most of the time I enjoy beeing part of a garbage crew here

But I agree we don't owe eachother shit here. But I also think beeing friendly, understanding and nice is helpful:)

Have a good day

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[-] moss 33 points 5 months ago

I'm going to review our mod policy and talk things over with my team to try to minimize this going forwards.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 18 points 5 months ago

sounds good, thank you! i appreciate the work you all do for free, and i appreciate even more you taking this seriously :)

[-] moss 16 points 5 months ago

to be honest, I should be contributing to moderation more. it's mostly my team that does the upkeep.

I'm going to try to be more active in my management of my team members from now on in order to nip moderatorial issues like this in the bud, rather than allowing them to continue for months. it feels unfair for me or others to blame those who made poor calls of judgment when I wasn't there to consult.

[-] moss 9 points 5 months ago

Queue has stepped down from the mod team of their own volition. we are looking for new mods to fill in for them

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[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 52 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

also found this comment got the user permabanned by the same mod for “corpoposting,” which is on the “will get your comment removed” list in the rules, not the “will get you banned” list. and yeah, user was banned after a discussion with our same friendly mod.

will update this comment with more if i find it. i do want to reiterate that i’m not here out of spite, i just want to bring attention to nonconstructive behaviors. :)

edit: ok ending my search as i tend to agree and am thankful for the rest of the mod’s recent actions

[-] queue 32 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

I will attempt to do better, but if the community wishes, I will resign as moderator due to my real life getting stressful and being a moderator here isn't going to solve real life issues.

EDIT: I have restored the posts.

EDIT 2: About the banned user IsThisAnAI @lemmy.world, they are constantly being reactionary and defending corporations at every given moment. It felt right to do it from my point of view. Right now they are complaining about "nanny state california" and that's not something I personally want in this community.

EDIT 3: I am going to do some shopping and chores, if the community wants me gone, I will remove myself when I am back, or have the mod team boot me.

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 16 points 5 months ago

I’m not calling on you to leave just please best don’t do it again.

[-] queue 11 points 5 months ago

Oh I know. But I think when I'm home I'll at least leave the mod team for a month to have one less mental weight. Been talking to Moss and the others on the discord.

[-] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 50 points 6 months ago

otherwise what is the point of a transparent and federated platform?

So we can call this behavior out, then pack it up and move 196 to a new instance where this mod isn't in control.

[-] funky_rodent 21 points 5 months ago

My dear, you are of course free to do so, that's the fun of the fediverse.

I also think it's good to call out flawed modding moments so we as a small group o volunteers can work in this and improve. So this (shitpost)-Forum can remain as big as it is in the moment.

Otherwise you are free to write Moss and become part of the mod-team

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[-] Catoblepas 58 points 6 months ago

There’s more than 1 mod on 196, might want to consider waiting longer than 30 minutes for a response before deciding everyone should leave

[-] A_Very_Big_Fan@lemmy.world 19 points 6 months ago

True lol, I'm just saying that the option being on the table is important. If they don't fix the issue, they risk everyone leaving for a better 196 elsewhere.

[-] Gork@lemm.ee 9 points 5 months ago

There should be exactly 196 mods here, no more, no less. This is the only way it will make sense.

[-] ElectroLisa 15 points 6 months ago

196 mod or instance mod?

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 26 points 6 months ago

mod of 196, will clarify in body text, ty :)

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[-] PeachyMcPeachface 14 points 5 months ago

Reminder that we have our email 196mods@protonmail.com

Important tool for those who have been banned and feel it undeserved, etc. While it's awesome that we have a small active community to double check the mod log and post any oddities right now, this may not always be the case. Hierarchies are wack and knowing the tools to hold people accountable is always a good thing. I do occasionally go back and check on our sent folder to see if anyone is being treated unfairly (which to be clear I haven't seen anything on the email side).

Thanks for the post ✌️

[-] mlg@lemmy.world 9 points 5 months ago

If anyone says Lemmy is like reddit I'm just gonna link this thread in response lol.

Much prefer discourse and sledging than getting insta banned by some random mod or admin

[-] spujb@lemmy.cafe 9 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

eh it’s important to note that this is 196, not just default lemmy. 196 has always tended toward being more chill and respectful to its users.

i have done some minor callouts of mods outside blahaj zone in the past, and the end results were much less constructive, much more reddit-core, if you will, than this.

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