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submitted 1 year ago by spaduf to c/politics@lemmy.world
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[-] chaogomu@kbin.social 19 points 1 year ago

The Nazis used the "threat of Communism" to rise to power. The same tactic as Mussolini.

Mussolini doesn't get enough credit for fucking up the world. It's always "the Nazis" when talking about fascism and right-wing jackassery, when Mussolini did it all first. He just ended up playing second fiddle to Hitler's greater crimes.

Still, this article is about American anti-communism being used as a tactic to attack any left leaning figure. Which is a tactic as old as communism. Before that, the rich and the right wing attacked the left with dogs and bullets to break up strikes. Police have murdered strike organizers in the streets. The national guard was once called in to machine gun down women and children of striking coal miners.

But once communism was invented, boy howdy did the right ring jump on it to justify their violence against it.

[-] PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 5 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

A great book that that talks about this extensively, among other very terrible things going on in America between 1917-1921, is "American Midnight" by Adam Rothschild. It came out last year and I'm currently about halfway through - it's fantastic.

NYT Review without paywall: https://txtify.it/https://www.nytimes.com/2022/10/03/books/review/american-midnight-adam-hochschild.html

Summary:

As Hochschild vividly details, the Wilson administration and its allies pioneered the police raids, surveillance operations, internment camps, strikebreaking and legal chicanery that would become part of the repertoire of the American state for decades to come. It may be recalled how, when Donald Trump was a presidential candidate in 2016, his followers ignited a media storm when they threatened to lock up his challenger. But only Wilson went the distance: He jailed his charismatic Socialist opponent, the 63-year-old Eugene Debs, for opposing America’s descent into the carnage of the First World War, with the liberal press in lock step. “He is where he belongs,” Hochschild quotes The New York Times declaring of the imprisoned Debs. “He should stay there.”

When Wilson became president in 1913, he was hailed as a progressive visionary. He wanted to transform moth-eaten American institutions into a sleek administrative state. Despite prompt invasions of Mexico and Haiti during Wilson’s first term, the country was hardly prepared for a major war. In 1917, as Hochschild recounts, the U.S. Army was smaller than Portugal’s. An 18th-century legal corset — the U.S. Constitution — constrained the executive branch, requiring two-thirds of the Senate to ratify foreign treaties. The state’s financial coffers were heavily reliant on excise and customs revenues. Despite the booming American economy and a thriving modern culture that would soon sweep the globe, Wilson found that he had taken control of the equivalent of a creaking galleon in an age of submarine warfare. He wanted to make America the decisive player in world politics, and for its influence to match its economic might.

Aided by the news of German war atrocities, the Wilson administration whipped up anti-German hysteria. Wilson produced a great deal of can't about making the world “safe for democracy,” though by "democracy” he had in mind something like an international clinic for political delinquents with America as supervisor. Internal enemies ultimately proved more reliable than high ideals in sustaining the country’s war fever. German-speaking Americans and other immigrant groups made for obvious targets. “I want to say — I cannot say it too often,” Wilson declared in 1919, “any man who carries a hyphen about with him carries a dagger that he is ready to plunge into the vitals of this Republic.” But the grander enemy was American socialists, who publicly opposed entering a war in which they would kill fellow workingmen at the behest of their ruling classes.

Standard histories of the first “Red Scare” tend to tell it as a largely domestic story. Hochschild insists on filling out the international dimension. The Bolshevik Revolution of 1917 features in “American Midnight” like a flare against the dark sky that captures the imagination of the left wing of the American labor movement. “Lenin and Trotsky were the men of the hour,” Debs declared, as members of the Industrial Workers of the World — known as the Wobblies — organized actions across the country. In 1919, one in five American workers walked off their jobs. In Seattle, in what later became known as the “Soviet of Washington,” a motley group of labor unions succeeded in conducting the first general strike in U.S. history — the only time American workers have taken over a city.

Yet neither the Wobblies nor any of the other American socialist outfits were a pincer party, unlike the Bolsheviks in Russia, who were led by a determined group of brilliant strategists and had a crumbling empire in their sights. Instead, the Wobblies, whose American membership never numbered more than 100,000, were a thinly organized movement fighting against business groups, which financed vast armories, many of which still squat at the center of American cities. These, in turn, were backed by a fledgling surveillance state that did not hesitate to outsource its violence to officially sanctioned vigilante groups. “Force, force to the utmost, force without limit,” Wilson said on Flag Day in 1918, the year his administration began overseeing the banning of small radical magazines like The Masses, and the hounding of any publication not on board with the war.

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 3 points 1 year ago

And history has shown McCarthy wasn't wrong.

See: William Remington, Solomon Adler, Frank Coe, everyone named by Elizabeth Bentley really.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 25 points 1 year ago

Now imagine what your life would be like if those damn commies hadn’t fought for an 8 hour day, 5 day work week, social security etc…

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

A system I'm going to pay into all my life but never use because it can't find funding? I'd rather it go away ASAP.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Yep. It’s definitely the commies fault it can’t find funding.

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

According to your own post it's the commies who fought for the broken system we have today. I personally just blame Eisenhower and his supporters, but you're free to blame who you want.

That being said I'll vote for whoever makes it so I no longer have to pay hundreds of dollars every month into a system I'll never benefit from.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

How do you know it won’t be around? Do you know something I don’t?

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

The same way I know a warehouse that takes 3 boxes in for every 2 boxes it sends out will eventually fill up. Social Security cannot fund itself, and once my generation (millennials) hits retirement age, there will not be enough young people to pay for the burden we put on the system.

It isn't magic, you need to pay the piper or default, those are your two options.

[-] TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago

Again, if that does happen, it won’t be commies that do it. In fact, commies will cut the defense budget and appropriate to social security. But we cannot do that for… reasons.

[-] spaduf 21 points 1 year ago

Are you seriously suggesting the Red Scare was fine because two superpowers were, in fact, engaged in espionage against each other?

[-] brambledog@infosec.pub 16 points 1 year ago

McCarthy wasn't wrong?

Did your pawpaw force you to read John Birch pamphlets as a child or did you come to this strange belief in adulthoold, without being groomed into it?

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Holy shit lol. You're supporting the imprisonment, assassination, deportation and disappearing of people simply for opposing capitalism.

And you owe practically every workers right you have to those communists. Talk about a self own.

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

No, I'm just saying there were communists in high offices during McCarthy's tenure. Where in that did I defend capitalism, or bring it up at all?

[-] Lenins2ndCat@lemmy.world 2 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Defending mccarthy in any way is a defence of his actions. Communists existing in high offices is not an excuse to carry out those actions. You cool with republicans mass purging democrats from their positions because they don't like their political beliefs? Murdering them? Deporting them? Throwing them in prison or worse, blacksites? Because that's what you're supporting and enabling with this shit.

Fucking cringe.

[-] LexiconDrexicon@lemm.ee 11 points 1 year ago

Yeah, and we all know the Salem Witch Trials were totally validated after all these centuries right?

Are you being serious?

[-] lynny@lemmy.world 1 points 1 year ago

How does that relate to anything being discussed here?

[-] Ensign_Crab@lemmy.world 11 points 1 year ago

And history has shown McCarthy wasn’t wrong.

McCarthy was getting started early, considering he was a child during the events of the article.

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 9 points 1 year ago

McCarthy's famous list he claimed was of communists in the U.S. government changed length every time he brought it up. That sounds like something someone who was wrong would do.

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this post was submitted on 25 Jul 2023
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