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No it's the vegans who's wrong (lemmy.vg)

submitted 5 months ago by nume@lemmy.vg to c/vegancirclejerk@lemmy.world

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[-] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world 55 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

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[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 35 points 5 months ago

Carnivores aren't evil because they don't have a choice in the matter. They are acting on instinct and do not care for ethics. Humans have a choice and moral compass, yet still create unnecessary mass death for personal gain.

As a hypothetical, if lab-grown meat becomes viable and scalable, thus offering a 1:1 replacement for meat, wouldn't we be evil if we were to reject it just because it didn't come from a dead animal? If no, why not? If yes, how dissimilar does the meat replacement have to be before humans stop being evil?

I actually eat meat fairly regularly, I'm just curious what other people think about this.

[-] essell@lemmy.world 16 points 5 months ago

Humans have a choice and moral compass, yet still create unnecessary mass death for personal gain.

We do. And yet that is not all we are. Should one aspect of what it means to be human being valued above the others? The elevation of critical thinking faculties to being the measure of a man is a very modern post Renaissance concept, one that is slowly losing traction thankfully

[-] Ibaudia@lemmy.world 18 points 5 months ago

"That is not all we are" is not an excuse for unethical behavior. Recognizing the needless death of trillions of innocent, sentient beings is not a critical thinking exercise. It is something one willingly turns a blind eye to.

[-] JackGreenEarth@lemm.ee 18 points 5 months ago* (last edited 5 months ago)

Who said anything about inherently evil? First, evil is a very religiously loaded term, harm or suffering is a better one. And we can absolutely morally judge a behaviour without making sweeping moral judgements about the person or being doing the behaviour.

Edit: spelling

[-] toxicbubble@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

lions don't have tofu and supermarkets

[-] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world 17 points 5 months ago

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[-] toxicbubble@lemmy.world 12 points 5 months ago

i hear what you're saying, but we're in 2024 now and large-scale veganism is definitely practical

[-] mojo_raisin@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

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[-] birthday_attack@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

I've been around these arguments enough times to see the discussion inevitably get to this point. We dance around the idea of "is it worth it to go vegan or not?" long enough, until eventually someone concedes that "yes it is better to do, but it's not practical to ask everyone to do it/you can't get everyone to go vegan/it won't solve the problem if we go vegan and do nothing else/etc."

Convenient that any time an environmental initiative requires even tiny changes to our day to day lives, suddenly we need to look for the solutions vaguely "elsewhere." I guess let's ignore the fact that emissions from food alone are enough to push the planet over the 1.5C degree warming threshold for the planet, and that the average US consumer eats an order of magnitude more red meat than could ever be sustainable.

If you truly think that it's worth doing, either do it, or admit that you selfishly don't want to. Don't try and pretend the climate science backs up your opinions though.

As an aside, this is basically my goodbye letter to Lemmy, so so probably not going to follow up on this thread. The platform is so small that people can't help but creep into communities that show up in the overall feed. Say what you will about Reddit, but at least there, spaces created specifically for in-groups (like a space called "vegancirclejerk") didn't constantly get commenters from the wider world knocking on the door and starting flame wars in the comments. Like, can there be no space for vegans to just fuck around and post memes in peace?

Maybe finally I'll get some peace by logging off and touching some grass. And then eating the grass, bc I'm vegan btw

[-] Applejuicy@feddit.nl 1 points 5 months ago

Thank you for the comment. I heavily resonate with the last part. I don't come to vegan communities online to be bombarded with non-vegans making the same terrible arguments, I have enough of that in real life. Leaving Lemmy seems like a more attractive option.

[-] Dragofix@veganism.social 5 points 5 months ago

@mojo_raisin @toxicbubble Did you knew they supplement farm animals with B12 and other vitamins and stuff?

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[-] snooggums@midwest.social 5 points 5 months ago

Vegetarian and vegan diets have been around for thousands of years in parts of Asia, well before B12 supplements. Cultures sorted out the nutritional requirements through ingredients, and the lack of B12 in western vegan diets has more to do with common western ingredients than some inherent problem with a plant based diet.

I'm not even vegetarian or vegan, just annoyed with misconceptions about their feasibility.

[-] TranscendentalEmpire@lemm.ee 1 points 5 months ago

Vegetarian and vegan diets have been around for thousands of years in parts of Asia, well before B12 supplements.

Vegetarianism yes.... veganism I don't think that's really plausible.

I think this may come down to different cultures classifying what they consider to be meat.

For example if you go to Korea, it's really really simple to be a vegetarian and almost impossible to be a vegan. Most of your basic cooking spices are going to include things like dried krill powder. And if you asked the cook or waiter if there are meat or animal byproducts, they will tell you "no meat".

[-] iiGxC@slrpnk.net 2 points 5 months ago

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wc8XTLpqxLw

[-] PixellatedDave@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

I don't understand your argument. I went vegan at age 51. Before I went vegan I was a meat eater and loved meat. I can honestly say I do not crave meat now.

I think it is just a case of developing your palette. It's like when some children don't like veggies but then grow to love them as part of the diet or cutting down on sugar.

[-] snooggums@midwest.social 6 points 5 months ago

Lions have nutritional requirements that can't be met without meat or enough generations and pressures to evolve the ability to process what they need from plants.

That is a major difference between big cats and dogs, as dogs are omnivores and could make due without meat.

[-] barsquid@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

I wonder if there's any difference at all between a lion and a human in terms of reasoning. Like does a typical human have the capability to plan outcomes and make decisions based on expectations for the long term?

[-] surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 7 points 5 months ago

Evil is a societal definition. You're seeing the beginning of the definition change to include the suffering of animals. The only way it will take hold permanently is if humans end up more empathetic in the future. The current batch don't have it in them.

[-] Neon@lemmy.world 13 points 5 months ago

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[-] MORAL_BASELINE@veganism.social 8 points 5 months ago

@Neon @nume bro with the taiwan flag talking about how the majority must be right. have you ever been to china? >90% of chinese would say taiwan is an integral part of china. do you think before you fucking type? also, you're forcing YOUR moral values onto animals, you pay for them to perpetually bred, raised, tormented, abused and slaughtered but vegans memeing online is """FORCING""" moral views onto others? jesus christ you're dense.

[-] Screemu@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 points 5 months ago

You are literally forcing your own moral values on livestock and/or other animals, resulting in death.

[-] jol@discuss.tchncs.de 3 points 5 months ago

Yes, minorities are literally always wrong and never in history has a minority group ever been right or caused a movement in the right direction. The end.

[-] chetradley@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

If your moral values are that you shouldn't kill sentient animals just for pleasure, we should be on the same page, right?

[-] megabat@lemm.ee 6 points 5 months ago

Shit I probably killed a thousand sentient creatures defending my vegetable garden this spring alone.

[-] chetradley@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

I've found companion planting works quite well for my garden, marigolds especially for keeping pests away.

[-] Arcanepotato@lemmy.world 2 points 5 months ago

Marigolds: my beloved

It's totally possible to garden without murdering tonnes of beings

[-] chetradley@lemmy.world 6 points 5 months ago

I love watching a post from a vegan community get enough traction that it starts hitting people's general feeds and carnists absolutely lose their goddamn minds in the comments🤌

[-] rez_doggie@lemmy.world 4 points 5 months ago

Tenderize that meat

this post was submitted on 15 May 2024

168 points (100.0% liked)

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