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The Palestinian activists fighting for LGBTQ+ rights against a neverending backdrop of war (www.lgbtqnation.com)

submitted 1 year ago by jeffw@lemmy.world to c/world@lemmy.world

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[-] z9t377ankd@lemy.lol 50 points 1 year ago

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[-] Catoblepas 79 points 1 year ago

And? So is where I grew up in the southern US. There are states I can’t legally visit anymore if I want to piss in a public restroom. That doesn’t mean I’m okay with bombing most of the hospitals, schools, and homes there and killing tens of thousands of civilians. Anyone OK with that because they’re bigoted in some way has a fucking moral deficiency.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 18 points 1 year ago

Most of the southern US won't stone you or murder you in broad daylight though. What's happening in Palestine and Israel is fucked up, but it doesn't give a pass to the shit they do to the LGTBQ+ and women over there.

[-] Catoblepas 31 points 1 year ago

Most of the southern US won't stone you or murder you in broad daylight though.

Since October 1st 2023, 20 trans people in the US are known to have died from violence. Almost half of them died in the south (as defined by the US census). Are trans people in the south any safer for it happening under cover of night? Pretending for a moment none of them were killed in broad daylight (some were).

Again, nobody is saying it excuses bigotry. Only a fucking idiot thinks bombing hospitals, schools, and civilians is going to somehow improve the lives of LGBT Palestinians (who everyone somehow neglects to give a shit about in these conversations except as a cudgel against western LGBT people).

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 6 points 1 year ago

So 20 from hate crimes? Or just 20 from all violence? Because those who are found out to be LGBTQ+ in the middle east, are killed because they're LGBTQ+, and often in very violent ways.

[-] Catoblepas 19 points 1 year ago

Some states don’t even have LGBT hate crime legislation, and until recently (like, last year) multiple southern states didn’t. There’s no federal requirement for states to report the number of LGBT hate crimes that happen yearly. So until that change there is no concise way of answering both how many trans people died from general violence and how many from hate crimes. But anyone who thinks the answer to that is zero isn’t paying attention.

I’m also not sure that the trans people murdered in the US get any solace from ‘only’ being shot or stabbed, or that the distinction helps anyone LGBT in the US or Palestine who is hate crimed.

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[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago

This doesn't make any sense - if anything it's backwards. being oppressed doesn't give anyone a free pass to oppress others. That kind of twisted logic is what Israel uses to get away with murder.

[-] Catoblepas 30 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

Fun fact, you can’t find anywhere in my comment that says “being oppressed makes oppressing others okay” because that’s not what it says. It says that parents potentially being bigoted isn’t an excuse to blow up their fucking children.

I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people, but the people I grew up with who are equally hostile to LGBT people don’t deserve to have their kids’ limbs blown off or killed. If the answer is “American children are simply worth more than Palestinian children” then they should just come out and say it, but all I ever get is bleating about the same shit I already addressed.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 14 points 1 year ago

I’ve yet to have anyone give me a satisfactory explanation for why Palestinian kids deserve to have their limbs blown off or killed for living in an area hostile to LGBT people

Is anyone actually saying this? What I usually see, like "queers for Palestine" is the opposite — people who excuse the extreme homophobia and misogyny in Islamic countries.

[-] Catoblepas 22 points 1 year ago

You are in a thread that started with a 1 day old account JAQing off about how transphobic Palestine is on a post about Palestinians campaigning for LGBT rights. If you don’t see that the purpose of that comment is to legitimize violence against Palestine I can’t help you.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago

If that's the case then OP is an enormous jackass. That still doesn't change the fact that queer Palestinians are absolutely being oppressed in their country (or what should be a country) and this is too often swept under the rug.

[-] Catoblepas 18 points 1 year ago

Wow, I wonder if the article posted has anything to do with that! ಠ_ಠ

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[-] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 19 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

So are you saying that Orthodox Jews and conservative Christians aren’t transphobic, or that we should go Gaza on Texas?

[-] DeadPand@midwest.social 13 points 1 year ago

I think OP was wondering why LGBTQ folks would support a group that hates them.

[-] SouthEndSunset@lemm.ee 23 points 1 year ago

Doesn’t mean to say that they deserve to die though, does it?

[-] FlyingSquid@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago

Because they have empathy.

[-] PrinceWith999Enemies@lemmy.world 12 points 1 year ago

Do Americans hate us? The only people I’ve been verbally and physically assaulted by have been Americans.

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[-] CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml 11 points 1 year ago

There are LGBTQ people in Palestine, do you think Israel's bombs don't kill them too?

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 6 points 1 year ago

Because my basic humanity requires me to care about theirs, even if they don't care about mine.

[-] cygnus@lemmy.ca 17 points 1 year ago

The middle east in general, and subsaharan Africa, are by far the most homophobic regions on Earth: https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2020/06/25/global-divide-on-homosexuality-persists/

[-] john89@lemmy.ca 16 points 1 year ago

It is, and that's when a discussion about Muslim nations gets very real.

They still don't deserve their treatment. But I think most people would prefer to live in a culture similar to Israel's over one similar to Iran's.

[-] OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

Lots of people all around the world are transphobic as fuck. That doesn't mean I want them and their children to get bombed or starved to death.

[-] captainlezbian@lemmy.world 13 points 1 year ago

And let’s not pretend that trans Palestinians aren’t also being bombed and starved

[-] barsoap@lemm.ee 8 points 1 year ago

Not sure about trans acceptance in particular but judged by Arab standards Palestinians are generally right-out progressive. More in the "don't ask, don't tell" stage with the occasional threat by fundies.

...and that all of course is West Bank. Gaza under Hamas rule is a completely different topic as Hamas are fundies.

[-] Voroxpete@sh.itjust.works 8 points 1 year ago

So is the US and Canada and the UK. Should I wish for those countries to be genocided too?

[-] chloyster 8 points 1 year ago

Why is this relevant? The article is about Palestinian activists fighting for LGBT rights for Palestine. Yes the rights of LGBT people in Palestine are not great .... But that's literally what this article is about, Palestinians fighting to make it better

[-] theacharnian@lemmy.ca 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How come do you think South Africa was one of the first countries to legalize marriage equality? Solidarity is how we do away with hate.

Go watch Pride. 2014 British movie. Will make you cry.

Edit, fuck I went and watched the ending again and I'm crying.

[-] onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 points 1 year ago

Israel is probably the nr. 1 murderer of trans people in the world right now. Get your priorities straight.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 15 points 1 year ago

Not even close. Israel sucks for what they're doing but no need to make up lies.

[-] onkyo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 7 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

How is it a lie? Gaza is probably the most dangerous place in the world. If you kill 40 000 people a couple of thousand of those are going to be lgbtq. God you people are dumb.

Edit: Also I like the inherit racism in thinking Palestinians can't be lgbtq and also claiming, without fact that they're transphobic. Hamas is transphobic. Palestinians are an entire group of people.

[-] SupraMario@lemmy.world 10 points 1 year ago

This is like saying that Ukraine is slaughtering LGBTQ+ people because they've killed nearly 1/2 a million russian soldiers. On top of that, you're acting like the reason Israel has targeted them is because they're LGBTQ+. You don't label a civilian death as a hate crime just because they're a certain race or gender. So no you're statement is blatantly false.

Palestine is not a race, and Islam is %100 transphobic and the main religion practiced there (98% of the population).

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[-] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 23 points 1 year ago

Hamas would love nothing more than to stabilize the country of Palestine, and then resume systematically throwing gay and trans people off roofs of buildings. "Queers for Palestine" protestors are all hopeful morons.

[-] Kolanaki@yiffit.net 45 points 1 year ago

It's Queers for Palestine; not Queers for Hamas.

[-] BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one 11 points 1 year ago

Who do you think was elected to run the governance of Gaza and Palestine before Israel plowed through?

[-] Catoblepas 32 points 1 year ago

Anyone under 36 wasn’t even eligible to vote the last time Palestine had parliamentary elections. Holding people responsible for elections that happened before they could vote or before they were even born is absolutely deranged.

[-] Enkers@sh.itjust.works 13 points 1 year ago

Anyone under 36 wasn’t even eligible to vote the last time Palestine had parliamentary elections.

I'd be willing to wager that an unusually large portion of the population falls into that category as well. Anyone have any statistics about the demographics of Palestine? Oh, their annual census is out of date? You don't say.

[-] OneWomanCreamTeam@sh.itjust.works 9 points 1 year ago

Their median age is about 19 years old.

[-] jas0n@lemmy.world 5 points 1 year ago

I believe 40% is under the age of 15. So, during the last vote, 40% were, at most, around -3 at the time. I don't they were.........

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[-] Pieresqi@lemmy.world 16 points 1 year ago* (last edited 1 year ago)

There are some folks who can't comprehend the mentality of:

"They hate us so they don't deserve to die"

Wow, get out of your tribalistic hole

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this post was submitted on 06 May 2024

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