Damn, if only they had stopped at 428 requests
No, it's 429 too many. There need to have been 429 fewer requests
Ah of course, you're right
What do you expect when "protests" involve widespread destruction of private property, looting, fires, and vandalism?
Well a proper response from the government? Not something that antagonize the population, maybe something more human than using ILLEGAL weapons against your people ? Proprety destruction and looting is what you get when you push your people to the brink.
Look, I understand that the people have a grievance, and there are 101 ways to protest that does not include violence and the destruction of property.
How many of them work?
That's a very loaded question. All of them can work under the right circumstances.
I support violence and destruction, but it needs to be directed at your oppressors, not your neighbors.
Americans didn't fight off the British with picket signs, they fucking shot them. Then enshrined their rights to own firearms and defend their right to liberty into the constitution as a basic human right.
"The tree of liberty needs to be refreshed from time to time with the blood of tyrants"
like a mayor of one of the impacted cities said: "we only talk about them when they burn stuff. they are never invited to talk about this, because it previously happened. This time, someone filmed this, and it countered what the cops were saying."
we only talk about them when they burn stuff
Did I say not to burn stuff? Or did I say to burn other stuff?
This time, someone filmed this, and it countered what the cops were saying
I have no context for this but how did riots help them to film?
It's just easier to burn stuff close to where you live i guess.
What i meant is that someone filmed the murder. The cops were already spinning this like they killed a dangerous criminal. Without the video, this would have been buried, and it already happened.
Yeah, this is a very important point. The best way to lose support for your cause is to destroy property of those you want support from. It's why support from BLM dropped so severely.
BLM wasn't even doing the rioting, but they did nothing to ensure those who used their cause to riot/destroy property were snuffed out. If you come to my home or buisness and destroy my shit, or stand by while others drive in with you and destroy my shit, I'm not supporting your cause.
If people's property are instead protected, and the violence/destruction is focused towards those who are oppressing them, they'd have way more support and things would get done.
We saw evidence during the BLM protests that violence was being started by police by both beating on peaceful protesters and using agent-provocateurs. The most famous example was the hooded man wearing police issued boots, who wasnt participating in the protest, knocking out the windows of a Target.
My point is that if violence and property destruction discredit a protest for you then the police have already won. They can turn any protest into violence and destruction if not by outright attacking peaceful protests, then by using an agent-provocateur.
We saw evidence during the BLM protests that violence was being started by police by both beating on peaceful protesters and using agent-provocateurs.
Absolutely, and I'm not saying that it's better/safer to protest against police in the United States.
You need to also keep in mind that the President of the country at the time was a racist and a despicable human being, who would constantly stoke the flames of unrest, and put citizens against the police on several occasions.
I'll admit that I don't know as much about Macron than I do Trump, but only because Macron's decisions don't directly affect what happens in my country (Canada).
My point is that if violence and property destruction discredit a protest for you then the police have already won.
They don't discredit the protest, but they make it really hard for me to be on the side of protesters because I don't believe that destroying private property is effective.
And I hold this belief no matter the cause. I've been part of animal rights protests, but completely reject groups who use violence or otherwise break the law to "support our cause", because it only creates divide.
Yes but how do you know if the people causing property damage are protesters or anti protestors?That was the crux of my last comment. Nobody likes when protesters are violent so showing up to a protest and starting violence is an easy way to shut it down.
And if government would have listened to those 101 ways, People would have resorted to the 102nd way.
Riots are the voices of the unheard. The French govt has a long and proud tradition of violently oppressing protests. Things in France have been contentious all year over a variety of issues. What exactly are the French people supposed to do? A letter writing campaign to stop having their rights stripped away? Sit quietly outside of Parliament and ask nicely to stop being oppressed? Politely ask that the pigs only crush their neck a little? If you abhor disruptive and violent political action done by the people, surely you've found the non-violent alternative that works better. What is it?
Riots are the voices of the unheard.
Protests can be.
Riots are criminal attacks against innocent businesses and residents, which contribute nothing to any cause, and only results in aggressive reactions from police and governments.
The French govt has a long and proud tradition of violently oppressing protests.
This is truly unfortunate, and I do sympathize with protesters.
What exactly are the French people supposed to do?
Not hurting innocent people and local businesses would be a good start. There cannot be an effective protest without the support of the community. If you're burning down the community, then you've only made more enemies.
It may be helpful to learn (based on studies) what methods of protests work and why.
If a protest can't be effective, then it's a waste of time.
You do understand that, when being discussed empirically, nonviolent protests often includes riots and looting right? Here you go.. I'd also like to add that your own source states that violent protest is effective. And that nonviolient, nonnormative protests are better at garnering public support. They article states the author personally believes those protests may be better at introducing change. Not that it is. They think it might. For a more thorough look into things here's a video that's worth your time and consideration.
Riots like these are what you get when you prevent any other forms of protests: banning protests (illegal but by the time you get through court to get the ban lifted it is too late), making unions and strikes irrelevant by never ever yielding, preventing votes in the National Assembly using pressures on MP and all that the means that our constitution allows to bypass parliament, even though there is no clear majority for whatever you are doing, forcefully removing peaceful protestors, etc There are reasons why unions was good for everyone, elite class included, they allow peaceful resolution of conflict. If you remove all peaceful avenue, there will be people going into the not peaceful avenue.
So it's A-OK for the billionaire class to set our world & society on fire, but when people get upset about that & are then told "too bad, shut the fuck up", we're just supposed to take it?
How's that boot taste?
I dunno if you know literally anything about the French, but Rioting is a long-standing part of their political culture over there. I'd argue it's a good thing.
If government addressed the peoples concerns at the word stage, things would never get to the firebomb stage.
Violence, Destruction, Etc are a direct result of government not addressing grievances satisfactorily.
Except, you can't mad at a government when half the country didn't care enough to vote.
You get what you vote for.
Yes, you can. The government is supposed to act in your interest, whether you voted for it or not.
You seem to be exercising a very concerted, propagandistic attempt at blaming protestors for being angry at their grievances not being addressed, and not a single word of criticism at the government facing the inevitable consequences of its lack of desire to answer to their citizenry, forcing citizenry into escalation.
I’ve spent some time just walking around looking at what’s happening during the protests in a large French city, and those didn’t really feel violent or overly destructive, more like a show of strength and trying to make the overwhelming public stance heard.
The only establishments that I saw had their windows broken were either large international chain stores or some municipal buildings, small cafes or various boulangeries were intact. There were burning trashcans and other stuff, but never too close to a building or something that might catch fire, everything was moved towards the center of the streets. It worked to disrupt car traffic and give the city a protest vibe, but it didn’t feel like the reason was pure destruction. You could’ve even come up to both masked protesters and cops and just have a chat in most cases. I think it was more violent in Paris, but I’d guess a lot of it had similar vibes still.
The thing is, it’s not like it started with this, there were peaceful protests and strikes at first. But when you ignore your population long enough, they see that peaceful means aren’t working and escalate. It could’ve been prevented if there was a reasonable governmental response.
Maybe you expect the government to do something to stop it? Instead of making it worse? 🤷
Bro the government needs to capitulate. They aren't supposed to do things that their citizens don't like. If there's destruction and shit, it's the governments fault.
Just going along with it is why Russia is the way it is today.
Yikes
Same old West.
News from around the world!
Please only post links to actual news sources, no tabloid sites, etc
No NSFW content
No hate speech, bigotry, propaganda, etc