SimpleX Chat Ltd is a seed stage startup with a lot of user growth in 2022-2023, and a lot of exciting technical and product problems to solve to grow faster.
Run by a VC funded for-profit company. That really should tell you all you need to know. Sorry, but no thanks.
this is a wrong take for a few reasons, if we're talking about trust.
Also, Signal literally was taking money from the CIA for a decade and also is based in the US anyway, and no one hardly said a word 🤣🤣 "Privacy" activists are a joke lmao. Also signal made a crypto coin and took away features like SMS, but of course they get a free pass for that too. Makes you wonder.
SimpleX is fully open source, verifiable, and audited. If there are changes that are bad, the community will talk about them, and at worst it can be forked
SimpleX has made it clear that they dont want you to trust them. It's decentralised and anyone can run their own relay, and the servers are designed prevent correlation. They also make it very easy to use TOR and multiple circuits. This is contrary to the inferior Signal model where you just have to trust that the centralized Signal org isnt leaking your phone and IP to the feds.
moving towards a decentralised, open, and trustless world is better for everyone. In this kind of system, I really dont give a damn where they are getting their money from, as long as they arent putting crap in the software, and if they do, we will all know about it. But so far they have shown that they are committed to extreme security and privacy, and they obviously arent trying to appeal to normies, so i doubt they would ever even try to put VC-pushed garbage in.
If you want a good app, you will need funding from somewhere. Look at apps like Session that arent funded well. They suck. So I'd rather SimpleX be funded by a VC instead of by the feds like Signal, as long as everything stays open, free, trustless, and decentralised
Time to get downvoted! See you guys at -50 😁
Where did I even mention Signal? Total strawman argument, as I don't think Signal is a good option either.
But you go ahead and trust Simplex Chat Ltd. I guess some people only learn from their own mistakes 🤷♂️
you completely ignored what i said, as I specifically argued that simplex is made to be used without trust. so dont talk about me trusting people lol.
Also I agree with you on Signal, was just throwing it out there for others, not necessarily for you.
Exactly what I thought; if the technology is so decentralized does it make sense to care so much about who finances the project? Like if one instance of lemmy was funded by Microsoft, we could easily use another one and block it, right?
yeah it's like TOR. it's public knowledge that it was both made and is funded by the US Gov, but we all see it as the standard of anonymity online because everything is open, trustless, and decentralized.
Upvoted bc VC eventually means enshittifiication. But with xz getting back-doored recently, what is the middle ground that keeps these things sustainable financially and operationally?
Maybe it’ll be governments partially funding it. If Schleswig-Holstein’s attempt is anything to go by, it might be a way
But do we trust entities that depend on our governments for funding? It could be argued that they’re fundamentally compromised.
As opposed to whom? Are investors in VC startups less compromised or more? What are the incentives in either case? Who do you trust to be competent and/or incompetent enough to compromise it without you noticing it? Who is likely to change a project that was well intentioned first after the fact? In what ways?
You have 4 basic options for funding:
-you rely on individual donations which doesn’t bring in enough money
-you force people to pay for it, which makes it less attractive when compared to traditional software, and makes much of the community pissy
-you rely on corporate money
-you rely on government money
None is perfect, but some amount of government funding (let’s say, 10% of what they would pay Microsoft for the equivalent software) might make sense
I did not know it was run by a VC funded company. Isn’t it open source and audited though? https://simplex.chat/blog/20221108-simplex-chat-v4.2-security-audit-new-website.html
Either way, if one needs to communicate without the use of identifiers like a phone number (afaik signal requires one) I trust Session. SimpleX features cool new tech but let’s wait until it matures
AFAIK it is audited, and its threat model is rather extreme, like there is no unequivocally binding id, you can give every contact a different id
They talk about for profit/no profit in their last blog entry
https://simplex.chat/blog/20240323-simplex-network-privacy-non-profit-v5-6-quantum-resistant-e2e-encryption-simple-migration.html
Thanks, I just uninstalled it lol.
My friends barely want to use Signal. There's no chance they're using something else.
"Hang on let me write down my QR code"
Usernames exist for a reason, especially in chat apps. Not having usernames is only going to severely limit your target demographic. And if nobody uses your app does it's benefits even matter?
You just scan QR codes. It is not that complicated
It can be pretty complicated without a phone. Especially if your computer doesn't have a webcam.
you don't need a camera, you can load the qrCode image (after sending it through Signal 🤭
I'd definitely use it if my friends were using it. Sadly, I can't even get them to use signal.
If I want a simple chat protocol, I use IRC or XMPP. These are battle proven by time. If I want a really secure protocol, I use Signal or Matrix. These are endored by many security experts who their shit when they assess protocols, crypto and solutions.
SimpleX may be a good alternative for anonymous communication, but there is plenty options out there. Considering how many startups are funded by cheap VC money, and the business model is always "provide something awesome, and once you have enough traction - enshittify it" makes me very weary of investing myself in new solutions no matter how open-source the are.
I may sound bitter and skeptic, but I've seen this pattern has been repeated many times over.
Signal was funded by the CIA for a decade
So? Tor is in a similar boat.
Government agencies need secure crypto to hide their activities, and it doesn’t work if they’re the only ones using the technology.
Never heard and don't know any users. I suspect I'm not alone.
I saw a user’s hash just this week — it was in a ransom note. They required their victims to sign up for the service and text a code to their userhash to kick off sending the attacker cryptocurrency so they’d send a decryption key and not make stolen data public.
Other than that use case, it hasn’t picked up many users that I’m aware of.
I don't trust for profit venture capital funding, if you want to see where it ends up just Look at how telegram or wickr transitions from being "open" and free to getting stripped of features only to have them become paid only and the wickr sold off to Amazon and ended all non business support...the business model for making a profit off chat applications is bad for users.
Also now that signal supports usernames I have no reason to use anything else even for people I wouldn't want having my real number.
Any chat protocol without full mutli-device support is not really an option for me https://github.com/simplex-chat/simplex-chat/issues/444.
I've been a fan of SimpleX for a while now. Privacy comes at the cost of convenience, and SimpleX is the most private messaging platform according to this spreadsheet.
In F-Droid, after disabling all anti-features, SimpleX still is listed. Signal never will be due to connecting to GCM or Firebase. Molly is an improvement for Signal but not for untrackable privacy like SimpleX from using a different ID with each individual SimpleX contact.
I liked the fact that it is really easy to self-host.
I tried it with friends on discord and in 10min I had a vps with a server running.
@SolarPunker@slrpnk.net I've not heard of anyone who does "not like" it? Many don't know about it maybe. I can't think of anything I've seen against it as it ticks most of the boxes for excellent privacy and has been very usable for me.
Me, my friends, and family are using it
Aaand.. Everyone is hating it, tbh 🤣
The notifications are unreliable and at the same time it drains 20% of the battery
Waiting for fixes, also want to setup my own relay
After Signal dropped SMS support, most of my friends jumped ship. No way they're using this.
I think it's just that there are too many options and the communities are so fragmented. I'm trying out simplex but it still feels like beta software. Regardless I'd like to see it succeed so we have a real private alternative that doesn't rely on big tech or shady government sponsorship.
Does it have forward/future security?
¹ Repudiation in SimpleX Chat will include client-server protocol from v5.7 or v5.8. Currently it is implemented but not enabled yet, as its support requires releasing the relay protocol that breaks backward compatibility.
² Post-quantum cryptography is available in beta version, as opt-in only for direct conversations. See below how it will be rolled-out further.
Some columns are marked with a yellow checkmark:
- when messages are padded, but not to a fixed size.
- when repudiation does not include client-server connection. In case of Cwtch it appears that the presence of cryptographic signatures compromises repudiation (deniability), but it needs to be clarified.
- when 2-factor key exchange is optional (via security code verification).
- when post-quantum cryptography is only added to the initial key agreement and does not protect break-in recovery.
Interesting project, but last time I tried it was battery hungry, and having made quite an effort to get some of my contacts on Signal, I don't see it happen to get them all on SimpleXChat. And Signal Stickers make Signal more attractive for some.
Seems like another one of those mobile only messengers, not really interested in those to be honest.
There's a desktop app: https://simplex.chat/downloads/#desktop-app
Ah, must have missed that one, though
Using the same profile as on mobile device is not yet supported – you need to create a separate profile to use desktop apps.
is a pretty major downside.
Never tried it. But I use Element, which is based on the Matrix protocol.
What does their multi-device story look like? Can I use one identity/account on multiple devices, with synced read state etc?
Edit: Looks like it's being worked on. I don't want to use a messenger without this feature anymore, but I'll give SimpleX another look once it's done.
They do. I absolutely love it
Privacy has become a very important issue in modern society, with companies and governments constantly abusing their power, more and more people are waking up to the importance of digital privacy.
In this community everyone is welcome to post links and discuss topics related to privacy.
[Matrix/Element]Dead
much thanks to @gary_host_laptop for the logo design :)
