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Tory MSP writes to Police Scotland chief over ‘non-crime hate incident’ row (www.scotsman.com)
submitted 7 months ago by Streetlights@lemmy.world to c/scotland@lemmy.world
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We might be living in topsy-turvy world when Murdo Fraser has a point. Honestly, the whole idea of the police keeping "hate" notes on you when you haven't committed a crime is pretty dystopian.

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[-] Olap@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

The police keep all sorts of records on people. Have done for years. Not sure he does have a point. And nobody owes him anything either. He's not a minister. He's not in government. He's a list MSP who long outlived his welcome and his talents

Now if we want to talk about police records in general, which we should be talking about instead of a focus on the new hate speech bill, which is frankly a total red herring, I'd give him more credence. Murdo here has no problem with intelligence about who you associate with being held, or your number plate scans being recorded, or what marches you have been on to protest about anything

[-] Streetlights@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

These NCHI's can show up on DBS checks and could therefore affect someone's employment. The threshold for it is abysmally low, mere perception is enough. His tweet was a nonsense, but making it into a police record is ridiculous.

England has already stopped doing this after a supreme court case (Miller v College of Policing) ruled it was "a real and significant interference with right to freedom of expression".

[-] Olap@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

https://www.mygov.scot/enhanced-disclosure here's where they could potentially appear. DBS being an England and Wales thing. If this bill is going to have any chance of lasting (which it won't) I'd expect this to be updated pretty quickly

It should also be noted disclosure scotland are not the police. Who you would expect to record complaints against individuals, if only to not reinvestigate. So Murdo just talking out his complete backside, as per usual

[-] Streetlights@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

If this bill is going to have any chance of lasting

What bill? It is law. The guidance to police on how to enforce it should be updated to reflect the judgement on the Miller case, or else some poor sod will have to go to all the way up to our supreme court to inevitably get the same judgement

It should also be noted disclosure scotland are not the police.

No but they access records held by the police such as these nonsense NCHI's.

Who you would expect to record complaints against individuals, if only to not reinvestigate.

I'm not sure the purpose of the police should be to record every complaint they recieve ever. Accusations of crime should be investigated, but a mean tweet?

So Murdo just talking out his complete backside, as per usual

Well, he had a NCHI record made about a tweet because someone complained, Humza didn't get an NCHI despite similar complaints, why the difference?

[-] Olap@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

It is a law, I stand corrected. And I do expect the police to record basically all interactions with everyone: total transparency the only way to work, police have not shown themselves to be trustworthy. I couldn't comment on Yousaf's lack of NCHI, I don't know the circumstances.

Your characterisation of a mean tweet hits the nail on the head here, and exposed your tolerance of hate. I presume you also think that police should have no grounds to investigate sectarian accusations in a football ground?

You have a problem with the law, I have a problem with Murdo. He really has a problem with Disclosure Scotland imo. And the police have a problem with hate crimes, as they are the usual perpetrators themselves, and the law itself is a complete mess. This one is a total storm in the right wing teacup, and like the OBFA will likely be repealed next parliament

This is another nail in the SNP/SGP coffin at Holyrood imo. A real shame, but they have shown repeatedly to be incompetent on social reforms like this, and the recycling scheme, and not radical enough on tax reforms. Not that I expect Red or Blue Tories to be any better day to day, but they will perhaps not spraf political capital on stupid unenforceable shit

[-] Streetlights@lemmy.world 1 points 7 months ago

I am as tolerant of hate as the supreme court is. The Article 10 right to expression necessitates tolerance of expressions that may be offensive, hurtful or shocking. Normal caveats withstanding such as shouting fire in a crowded theatre and making specific and credible threats of violence.

[-] Trebuchet@lemm.ee 2 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Murdo is just being a reactionary prick, which plays well to his base, which wants to stir up hatred against certain groups, for example, catholics or trans people.

NCHI recording is necessary for statistical purposes, as well as for identifying clusters of hate incidents so that resources can be allocated.

Personal data is not attached to NCHIs unless the instance poses the risk of significant harm to an individual or group.

this post was submitted on 04 Apr 2024
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