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What's the best reason to vote for Trump?
(lemmy.world)
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this post was submitted on 22 Jul 2024
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I've not been following the Ukrainian war recently, but wouldn't the US surrendering Ukraine result in the erasure and eradication of Ukrainian culture. Which would likely result in more deaths than the war itself?
But we won't have to hear about the war any more, and that's all they really care about.
I care about people (including my friends and family) not dying.
As a conservative, the only people you care about not dying are your friends and family. Conservatives are not able to experience empathy for people outside of their in-group.
Well, this is false :)
I do experience empathy towards all Ukrainians dying in this war, not just my friends and family (although obviously I care more about them, that's how life works).
You are lying. It really is that simple.
Well go on, prove it, expose my lies to every one :)
The consistent behavior of conservatives world-wide is evidence that conservatives are incapable of experiencing empathy for those outside of their in-group.
Your suggestion that your capacity for empathy is somehow different than all other conservatives is bizarre and itself requires evidence to be taken at face value.
You didn't provide any proof for that :)
And actually, why do you even consider me a conservative? Is it only conservatives who have a compassion for human life? :/
You are the one suggesting that somehow I lack empathy, so burden of proof is on you ;)
The statement immediately above was evidence. In classic conservative fashion, you now demand evidence of that evidence. This goal-post movement will continue ad nauseum, illustrating the futility of debating conservatives.
No. The opposite is true, obviously.
You are requesting evidence of a negative, knowing full-well that it is not possible to prove a lack of existence of evidence. You have now provided yet another example of a conservative engaging in debate in bad faith.
You're confusing your opinion with evidence. Sorry to tell you, but it doesn't work that way.
Oh really? So you have empathy towards hundreds of thousands of Ukrainians that died in the war, and also wish for war to end as soon as possible, and therefore support Trump who is the only politician who promised to end the war? Well, in that case what are we even arguing about :)
I am requesting evidence of your arguments. If you argue something that you can't prove, then your argument is by definition invalid.
This statement is deception. I used your words as evidence. Your words are clearly not my opinion.
This statement is manipulation based on deception. You asked me to prove that you do not have empathy for those not in your in-group. It is foundational to the basic human understanding of reality to know that it is impossible to provide evidence of the absence of something beyond the absence of the evidence of its existence. This is an informal logical fallacy called "Argument from Ignorance". I provided a statement based on the Absence of Evidence and you replied by demanding the Evidence of Absence. This is a bad faith argument on your part.
Omg, it's really impossible to argue with you :/
In a dozen messages we've exchanged, you provided exactly 0 evidence of what you're trying to prove, exactly 0 quotes of me that prove any of your points and exactly 0 valid arguments.
It's impossible to continue this discussion :(
Your dissenting opinion does not disprove my evidence.
This is manipulation based on deception. I used multiple quotes of your comments as evidence against you. You have just decided that they do not "prove any of (my) points". Your opinion is irrelevant.
Another manipulation based on your personal opinion that the evidencr I provided was not sufficient to change your mind. My goal, however, has never been to change your mind. My goal has been to allow you to illustrate the deception, manipulation and bad faith discussion one should always expect from a conservative.
It is not possible for a conservative to enter a debate in good faith, as every word uttered by a conservative is deception or manipulation.
If Trump actually COULD end that war, you can enjoy living in Newkraine, the redeveloped luxury resort of the Sovi- I mean, Russian Union.
Here we go again, I always hear the same arguments and they don't make sense..
Nobody talks about Ukraine being turned into Russia. After peace talks start, new borders will be drawn (give or take) at the current frontlines (which could be way closer to Russia if peace talks started sooner btw).
And btw, even apart from that - do you know how to identify someone who never visited Ukraine and Russia? They are scaring you of living in Russia. Ukraine and Russia is the same shithole, give or take. Seriously, take whatever metric you want - HDI, GDP, corruption index, journalist freedom index, amount of wooden toilets on the outside, what-fucking-ever, what you will see? Both countries being close together, sometimes Ukraine is a bigger shithole, sometimes Russia is.
I'm sure that's all true, but you're not looking at it like Trump.
Your mistake is thinking like someone who gives a shit about ANYTHING that happens outside of the US. Trump is not one of those people.
Trump has a tiny boner for the power Putin has, and many people are convinced Putin has dirt on Trump. He would send US planes to drop bombs on Ukraine if his buddy Putin asked him to.
Well, maybe you're right, I don't know.
Like sure, maybe all that you've said is true!
But Dems will 100% continue the war just like Biden was doing this whole time. Trump at least says that he will end it.
So as I see: chance of peace with a Dem is 0%, chance of peace with Trump is >0%.
Do you think I am wrong here ^ ?
And if no, then how am I supposed to support anyone but Trump?
I think it's strange that you say you live there, but don't seem to have a preference on HOW the war ends. There's a big difference between a Ukraine victory, a Russian victory, and anywhere in the middle.
I'm not going to tell you how it is, if you're there, you know better than I, but I do know that Trump is not someone you want to put your trust in.
He's essentially Putin in training, and if you're still ok with that, you can fuck right off, because fascism isn't good for anybody.
What difference is there for an average Joe?
But I did not say anywhere that I trust Trump, in fact I said otherwise that I fully agree with you that politicians (including Trump) cannot be trusted!..
As I said - he at least says that he will end the war, and the Dems say they will continue it.
And again - if there would be other (viable) candidates, sure I'd support them. Is there any other candidate who promises that Ukrainians will stop dying?
Yeah. I've had my fill of sea lion today. Bye
Cya
Why would it? Trump did not promise to "surrender Ukraine", he promised to force both sides to negotiate and end the war. I don't think those negotiations would include whole Ukraine becoming Russia, do you think so? Most likely scenario is that the current front lines become the new borders, and most of the lost territories (Lugansk, Doneck, Crimea) don't really have " Ukrainian culture" they are mostly Russian speaking. It's a little bit different with Kherson and Zaporizhzhya but they still don't have nearly as much "Ukrainian culture" as western Ukraine.
The US doesn't have the ability and/or willingness to force Russia to comply with any of their demands. Therefore any deal has to be in agreement with the Russian state, which means their war demands. That means either the US pulls military support and Ukraine are unable to fight back, or the talks go nowhere and nothing really changes. There is no motivation for Russia to accept the current front lines.
... Although, like I said, my knowledge of this conflict is a little spotty - someone in the audience let me know if my read of the situation is correct.
I don't think this is correct..
We now know the details of the peace talks (from Ukrainian sources!) that started right at the beginning of the war, where Russia was ready to retreat to pre-war (so 2022) borders.
So I'm actually reasonably sure that Russia would absolutely accept the current front-lines.
The only reason there is no peace talks happening, is because Zelensky's demands are absolutely clownish (seriously, I don't know a better word here) - "give us back all the territories you captured, including Crimea, and then we will be ready to talk".