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this post was submitted on 03 Jul 2024
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Privacy
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It's the one with a dev that thinks that replacing "he" by "they" is political propaganda?
Yeah, no thanks.
Thanks for the heads up. Not worth the time
Chill. Read the cited sources. It's someone asking the community to not use the github forum for discussing the completely irrelevant topic. It's not a fucking open forum it's for developers to use as a resource. I don't care if the person was giving out a $1,000,000 to anyone that commented, find an appropriate place to post your comments. I saw nothing against the topic itself but a bunch of angry responses. I mean if you read and are like na fuck that dude than 100% that's your take but that's the thing, its YOUR take. I hate seeing people so quick to draw the fuck this or fuck that card from absolutely zero rhetoric than what an anonymous internet comment said.
Treating social media as social media makes sense. If you don’t want your issue tracker to turn out like this, then stop using the social media code forge.
Can you provide some context?
Edit: I found the context. Here and here.
maybe I'm not seeing where the smoking gun is, here. I see a guy saying something akin to "can we not do this here in the github please"
and then I see a bunch of people blowing up and yelling about "dehumanization" over it.
...why is this such a huge deal exactly?
Changing "he" to "they" isn't a political change, or shouldn't be if you're not a fucking shithead
Maybe I’m dumb, but I completely do not understand what the dev did to upset people.
I read the thread and I’m confused about it.
People get upset over anything tbh
This Mastodon post discusses it and has links to the PRs: https://ruby.social/@denis/112718132053579597
This one for SerenityOS shows Kling's response to a very minor and neutral change.
What the fuck have to do one thing with another. You people are so fucked up . You make drama from anything imaginable
Kling is the one "making drama"
for someone who can speak a language that lacks gendered pronouns, this "hysteria" over he/she/they is ridiculous!
As someone who speaks a language with gendered pronouns but no neutral option, this is very awkward to deal with.
yes, it's awkward for the "individual" who is longing for reliable expression
it also seems to be awkward for people who can't figure out the changes in the language they think as their own. They are irritated by their "disfigured" reflection
it's awkward for officials who need to make decisions (positive or negative) about the use of "inclusive" language
we give shape to languages and languages shape us
English could initially have neutral pronouns and people would be obliged to find other reasons to hate each other 🤷
Well on the contrary you should understand it more. A gendered pronoun carries an idea of gender, and having a genderless pronoun frees the sentence of this gender assumption. Nothing very hard to understand.
that's what i thought i meant but thanks for the lesson I've never needed
even your comment is, for me, coming from that ridiculous tension
Do you think there are no assholes working for google or mozilla? Assholes are everywhere. And fuck cancel culture.
Edit: I stand by what I said, you can downvote me all you want. It doesn’t matter to me one bit.
Cancel culture, this far-right myth that fascists love so much. You forgot to continue and talk about freedom of speech and how you are a centrist.
people can have different views. you might not like them but it's their views, not yours
yeah but does that affect the browser development process significantly?
there are people with differing views in this world and you need to accept that if you want to actually achieve things
I'm not saying i agree with him bc I don't, but I wouldn't base my opinion on the project on the small grievance i have with one dev's opinions.
have fun with google spyware ig when they finally do something like web environment integrity
Or we can just keep using firefox
It is just disappointing. But people forget that there are many FOSS projects that we widely use where the developers have shitty ignorant opinions. Maybe peoples uproar is directly related to the refusal to merge a simple grammar change, which seems very anti-open source. Or maybe that the Dev has a code of conduct that speaks about inclusivity which they weaponized to justify not merging, as to be "politically-inclusive" (aka some people dont believe that "they" can be used for one person lmao). It just feels like they are choosing a weird hill to die on and also being a hypocrite by being so intentional obtuse, and of course the devs abrasive and accusatory method of responding on multiple occasions.
I think it is harder to separate the Dev from their creation when it relates to open source. It really is a passion of the heart a lot of the time. But that doesn't make the tech any less interesting.
I see your argument and I agree, but I just believe that with these talented/intelligent/passionate (valuable imo) people it's better to dedicate their limited valuable time to things they exceed at, not time for them to "correct" their sometimes ignorant opinions. We can ignore their ignorance, we can't replace their value.
When getting people to "correct" their opinions, my opinion is that they're far more likely to learn to mask their opinions, having to be constantly conscious of how others will respond to what they're saying and reducing their work throughput in the process.
It can only be corrected if the person actually starts believing that the "correct" idea is actually correct. That's way harder than for them to simply pretend like they believe the "correct" idea, which they'll obviously do first. Isn't that a waste of time?
And it's my view that we are free to dunk on people with bad views.
i don't get why sane people would rather a person with good opinions over a free independent web browser, the latter just seems so much more valuable to me.
So you think you can draw a connection between someone's views on inclusive language and whether an individual or org can be trusted with software security.
I'm sorry but to me this line of thinking is bonkers. The two things have nothing to do with each other whatsoever. What if a conservative individual argued that they have trust issues with an open source project because it features inclusive language now? The person might argue that they don't understand why devs would devote their limited time to such cosmetics instead of focusing on code quality. How would you view this argument? On Lemmy it would probably be ridiculed, and rightfully so. Yet it's the same line of thinking that I see if I interpreted your comment correctly.
Look, the dev is a reactionary. He lists that the browser is unstable and intended for devs. So IF I were to use it, that would mean reporting issues and/or fixing issues myself. I'm not interested in working with a reactionary. So I will not be using this browser. You're welcome to use the browser if you want. At this time, I'm not interested.
interesting idea, I guess maybe we just think like that in selfishness? (idk if selfish is the right word here) if someone was to become the lead dev of a project like this and they were extremely hateful of my culture in particular or something, i'd prolly not want that guy to be the lead dev, but if they're not doing any harm i guess that's just my selfishness wanting them to reflect my views so my views get more recognised in society through the platform that they've earned? (though that'd be quite justified)
overall though if that person wasn't causing actual harm, just publicly having that view there's no harm done and it'd be the most resource efficient to just let that person be. i'd probably complain but that's probably because we evolved to prioritise our own interests above that of society as a whole.
though we all live in democracies and developers of foss projects shouldn't have to be where we gain our political voice, but I guess we just aren't there yet.
Did the OP say they couldn't have different views? You must have replied to the wrong comment.
isn't that what they implied?
I'm fine with solumbran seeing the dev's opinions as "wrong", I just find how they base their whole view of the project on that single small disagreement makes them seem like a shortsighted dumbass
Oh that's not at all what they implied. They implied you shouldn't use the project based on the author's opinions. That's very different from implying the author isn't entitled to their opinions.
Boycotting the software doesn't infringe on the author's rights to have a shitty opinion. It's called consequences for being an asshole.
that's what i said??
how am i saying this? i'm saying that the guy is shortsighted for telling people to boycott the software just bc of the dev's opinions
i'm not arguing about the arbitary rights of authors, i'm just saying that boycotting isn't an efficient use of resources
Yes, they can. And I can also view their views with disdain... or even horror and choose not to support their efforts, whatever they may be.
What you are really saying here is that you to some degree don't disagree with Kling and so it's this particular view you find acceptable to let pass. If it were something like "people should be fine eating small children" you might react differently.
He is right, hey shouldn't push a political agenda. They can fork it if they don't like it. It is his choice and he is the one putting in the work, not you.
Refusing the change is pushing a political agenda too. But I guess it helps seeing which agenda you prefer ;)
Well it isn't something that should be discussed in a Github issue.
And where then? It is about changing a part of the software, that fits quite clearly an issue/pull request
I’m sorry but “project documentation should not be discussed in a GitHub issue or pr” is what you’re going with?? Where the fuck else would you discuss it?
Based Andreas KING