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submitted 6 months ago by PugJesus@lemmy.world to c/196

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[-] setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world 12 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

I noticed you skipped 2022, when the U.S. approved $100+ billion in aid.

The U.S. support hasn't been perfect, but ragging on the U.S. without even acknowledging 2022 when they supplied billions on billions worth of aid, and downplaying other aid just reeks of wanting to be negative no matter what.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 6 months ago

I'm not trying to say they're not giving aid. They're keeping Ukraine alive, and God bless them for it.

The point that I'm making is they have a habit of waiting months or years before they give the type of aid that's required, and don't really seem to be making a crash priority about it, in the way they would if Americans were dying by the thousands and cities being destroyed. Zelensky actually specifically said that they didn't seem to want to give enough aid to "win" particularly, just enough not to lose, and sometimes specific types years after it was the specific type that it was needed (F-16s being an example).

Looking at American politics, I can kind of understand it, in that we have one wing that's specifically trying to sabotage Ukraine and make sure they lose, and one wing that's trying to fight to get them the aid that's needed, and they're fighting a pitched battle. On the other hand, looking from the Ukrainian side, I can sympathize quite a lot with the viewpoint that fuck all that, IDK what you're talking about, we're dying out here can you please just fucking help us.

[-] setsneedtofeed@lemmy.world 3 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Zelensky actually specifically said that they didn’t seem to want to give enough aid to “win” particularly, just enough not to lose

Not to stir up too much, but it's Zelensky's job to constantly ask for more and more and more, and to push and prod and guilttrip and use every angle for every piece of aid. I don't think there's any level of aid given right now where he wouldn't turn around and ask for more, saying what he's getting isn't enough. He's a politician who is trying to leverage for maximum aid rather than an objective source. That's not a knock, just saying that that's his job right now.

America isn't putting the weight of its military in as if it were being invaded, but it is and has been sending hundreds of billions worth of equipment, and people online only seem grateful for about 5 minutes when each shipment arrives, before going back to knocking the U.S. The U.S. didn't invade Ukraine; the U.S. has advised and helped train them, and given them aid.

The earlier above comment wasn't meant to say it isn't giving aid, but it did downplay it and thanks only came when that was noted.

[-] mozz@mbin.grits.dev 2 points 6 months ago* (last edited 6 months ago)

Fair point also

Not really directly related, but one of my favorite takes on it is from "Sky Over Kharkiv" by Serhiy Zhadan, some commentary on the day to day, from an ordinary Ukrainian watching his country full of normal people get dumped wholesale into a sustained hot war. Here's his take on Ukraine's mentality, as compared with the US's and Russia's:

And I'd like to make another point. I was rather skeptical of the current government. I was struck by one particular thing. The elections of 2019 brought a lot of young people to power -- not my peers (I'm a far cry from being young) but a bunch of political youngsters who didn't belong to dozens of parties or hadn't worked for all kinds of shady cabinets of ministers. "But why do these young people," I thought, "act like old functionaries from the Kuchma era? Where did their childish urge to make a quick buck and flaunt it come from? Why aren't they trying to be different?" Thing is, I personally had the chance to do what I still consider rather constructive, useful things with a lot of them -- everyone from ministers to mayors and governors. Nonetheless, I'd look toward the Parliament building and ask myself, "Why aren't you trying to be different?"

Now [in wartime] with the naked eye you can see them trying to be different. Advisers, speakers, ministers, negotiators, officers, mayors, and commanders -- these forty-year-old boys and girls whose generation has been dealt the cruel lot of having to stand up for their country. And this applies no less (and possibly even more) to the millions of soldiers, volunteer fighters, and just regular people pitching in, people shedding the swampy legacy of the twentieth century, like mud falling off new, yet well-chosen combat boots. Young Ukrainian men and women -- that's who this war of annihilation is being waged against. And then, in contrast, are the heads of Russia, Belarus, America, and Germany. The first two are old delusional geezers from the past century who look a lot like old Russian armored vehicles, but they're old. And they're Russian, which, in itself, does little to recommend a vehicle. Then there are the latter two -- they're cautious office clerks, retired capitulators who aren't brave enough to admit that they, too, are involved in what's going on.

Emphasis is mine

(And, I just wanna make it clear that I love that America is supporting Ukraine in the war; I'm not trying to talk any shit about the aid for Ukraine or its genuineness. Just I feel like even now there's still a disconnect between views of the aid on the US and Ukrainian side and I want to stick up for the Ukraine viewpoint in that)