110
submitted 4 months ago by BrikoX@lemmy.zip to c/globalnews@lemmy.zip

For many Jews, Zionism signifies a connection to Israel. But a large number of student protesters see the violence in Gaza as a logical conclusion of the late 19th century ideology

Archived version: https://archive.ph/d7IaR

you are viewing a single comment's thread
view the rest of the comments
[-] Veraxus@lemmy.world 110 points 4 months ago* (last edited 4 months ago)

Became? Always was… even at the end of WW2. Albert Einstein, who was Ashkenazi Jewish himself, even opposed it. Taking away a native populace’s land and giving it over to outsiders has always been, and always will be, controversial.

[-] WhatAmLemmy@lemmy.world 46 points 4 months ago

Stealing people's land from underneath them and giving it to another people (especially based on religion or ethnicity) is both a crime against humanity and a violation of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (created 6 months after establishing the state of Israel), but the west just accepted Zionism because the majority of jews were white Europeans, the colonialists who dominated the league of nations didn't consider brown people to be people, and none of them wanted to allocate any of their own land due to their own antisemitism.

Zionism has always been a crime. We were just lied to and told things were "complicated" by the same colonialist oligarchs who call the Islamic extremism their own historic crimes created and amplified "complicated".

[-] johker216@lemmy.world 7 points 4 months ago

Not necessarily disagreeing with you, but there's a reason why European Jews were in such ample supply. It's hard to negatively judge early Jewish Zionism when many of the Jews in question were liberated from genocide and given their ancestral home back. The actions of the right wing government in Israel don't speak towards the large number of Israelis that oppose the actions of the government or their particular view of Zionism. The term Zionism has been co-opted by various groups to the point where it no longer carries meaning but instead becomes caricature for a certain type of villain.

[-] gorgori@lemmy.world 13 points 4 months ago

Not too complicated. Zionism basically boils down to "Israel is Jew home country (for mythical reasons)" therefore "Jews should strive to achieve it". It may have other connotations but I don't think a lot of people are confused about this.

[-] qck@ttrpg.network 4 points 4 months ago

and given their ancestral home back

?

[-] johker216@lemmy.world 3 points 4 months ago

Israelites

Jewish diaspora

The presence of Jews in that area of the Middle East goes back over 3000 years until the expulsions. People don't dispute that modern-day Palestinians lived there prior to the 1940s - but people conveniently set arbitrary time limits of settlement to allow for one genocide and decry the other.

Politics in the middle east is not a simple case of "Israel bad." Both groups of people deserve a home and both are going to lose part of their national identity regardless of the outcome. A two state solution is the most prudent solution and arguing otherwise ignores reality.

[-] qck@ttrpg.network 2 points 4 months ago

I don't know if you really believe that the whole world except jews remain in their birthplace without getting displaced. Palestine was the homeland of Jews 3000 years ago and guess what it's not 3000 years ago anymore. If you read how israel is described and formed in it's earliest stages you will see how zionists believe it is their homeland because their magical book said so. That's not how it works mate. It's an old habit of the British Kingdom giving away places they dont own to other parties.

Do you also think anyone can go and occupy nothern africa because humans originated from there? Where do you draw the line?

[-] johker216@lemmy.world 1 points 4 months ago

I guess the point wasn't clear enough: Israelis and Palestinians both claim the land due to ancestry. Reasonable people understand the issue is complicated; displacement was a friendly replacement for massacred, forcibly removed, and slavery. You can clearly see that the intent of the creation of Israel was to redress a wrong perpetuated over millennia, regardless of the reality that it caused another migration of peoples.

Like you said, Zionism is just the belief in a divine ancestral claim (core, even, for Judaism) to the region. You can be flippant about it being based in religion and dismiss it from your position of privilege behind a keyboard, but there are radical religious people that believe the land is their birthright just as strongly as some Palestinians and are fighting over that. The religious extremists on both sides of the conflict frankly don't care about your opinions. A two state solution offers the best course for peace in the area, but the extremists from both sides need to be isolated and dealt with. Most Israelis and Palestinians are good people such in the middle of a shitty situation.

this post was submitted on 12 May 2024
110 points (100.0% liked)

Interesting Global News

2475 readers
221 users here now

What is global news?

Something that happened or was uncovered recently anywhere in the world. It doesn't have to have global implications. Just has to be informative in some way.


Post guidelines

Title formatPost title should mirror the news source title.
URL formatPost URL should be the original link to the article (even if paywalled) and archived copies left in the body. It allows avoiding duplicate posts when cross-posting.
[Opinion] prefixOpinion (op-ed) articles must use [Opinion] prefix before the title.


Rules

1. English onlyTitle and associated content has to be in English.
2. No social media postsAvoid all social media posts. Try searching for a source that has a written article or transcription on the subject.
3. Respectful communicationAll communication has to be respectful of differing opinions, viewpoints, and experiences.
4. InclusivityEveryone is welcome here regardless of age, body size, visible or invisible disability, ethnicity, sex characteristics, gender identity and expression, education, socio-economic status, nationality, personal appearance, race, caste, color, religion, or sexual identity and orientation.
5. Ad hominem attacksAny kind of personal attacks are expressly forbidden. If you can't argue your position without attacking a person's character, you already lost the argument.
6. Off-topic tangentsStay on topic. Keep it relevant.
7. Instance rules may applyIf something is not covered by community rules, but are against lemmy.zip instance rules, they will be enforced.


Companion communities

Icon attribution | Banner attribution

founded 1 year ago
MODERATORS