MLism isn’t a good example of socialism.

Its the only real example my dude, ive implied its the biggest reason its the movement im in, but ill say it explicitly now. i keep having to repeat things wont be perfect from the get go, if your expectation is perfection or nothing then you will get nothing. i'm not advocating for countries be exactly like china or russia either.

Wow, I didn’t realize the USSR ended in 1919. I’ll have to tell my friends. The October Revolution had 0 deaths on either side.

I never said it didnt. You are purposefully misinterpreting me at this point.

thats only true if you consider the beggining of the revolution. look up who funded the white army and why. also look at revolutions literally anywhere else they were tried instead of cherrypicking and you will see an opposite trend.

sounds like tankie media lionizing China

china themselves said they would before they did (look up their 5yr plans btw, they frequently achieve their goals), and to much lesser extent western analysts. not "tankie media".

i have no reason to believe your western bullshit over them on matters pertaining to chinese internal affairs, when you yourself is parroting the 'infrastructure made of sand' crap

Wow, I never realized that fascists playing “we’re socialists actually”

you are the one doing that. ive seen you present zero solutions or alternatives so far, and lies and misrepresentations about the ones we have. you cant consider yourself a socialist if you are an anti-communist who hates literally all socialist experiments ever tried, and repeat the western red scare propaganda about every country that ever tried it.

ML lifted maybe a couple of hundreds of millions of people out of poverty, and improved living conditions to hundreds of millions more, those are historical facts that even non-fascist neoliberals ive listened to avoid disputing. you could also present better ideas instead of criticizing something you don't seem to understand nor have the curiosity to learn about. kindly go fuck yourself.

honestly at this point i have no reason to talk to you any further, you are turning a debate of ideas into name-calling. i love talking about politics, but this ain't happening here anymore.