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submitted 7 months ago by MicroWave@lemmy.world to c/news@lemmy.world

It is a scenario playing out nationwide. From Oregon to Pennsylvania, hundreds of communities have in recent years either stopped adding fluoride to their water supplies or voted to prevent its addition. Supporters of such bans argue that people should be given the freedom of choice. The broad availability of over-the-counter dental products containing the mineral makes it no longer necessary to add to public water supplies, they say. The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention says that while store-bought products reduce tooth decay, the greatest protection comes when they are used in combination with water fluoridation.

The outcome of an ongoing federal case in California could force the Environmental Protection Agency to create a rule regulating or banning the use of fluoride in drinking water nationwide. In the meantime, the trend is raising alarm bells for public health researchers who worry that, much like vaccines, fluoride may have become a victim of its own success.

The CDC maintains that community water fluoridation is not only safe and effective but also yields significant cost savings in dental treatment. Public health officials say removing fluoride could be particularly harmful to low-income families — for whom drinking water may be the only source of preventive dental care.

“If you have to go out and get care on your own, it’s a whole different ballgame,” said Myron Allukian Jr., a dentist and past president of the American Public Health Association. Millions of people have lived with fluoridated water for years, “and we’ve had no major health problems,” he said. “It’s much easier to prevent a disease than to treat it.”

According to the anti-fluoride group Fluoride Action Network, since 2010, over 240 communities around the world have removed fluoride from their drinking water or decided not to add it.

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[-] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 178 points 7 months ago

No, people shouldn't have the right to choose if fluoride is added to their water. People are stupid. You vote to remove something that will greatly help children that can't vote. The government's job, sometimes, is to stop stupid people from hurting others and their selves. That's the reason you can't drink raw milk or use lead gas.

[-] bradorsomething@ttrpg.network 44 points 7 months ago

The raw milk thing is actually part of the reason the FDA was formed!

[-] zenParsnip@sh.itjust.works 8 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Where does "no, people don't have the right to choose if [chemical] is added to their bloodstream, because they are stupid" stop? Who determines when it's "stupid" not to add a chemical to the water supply, and to whom do they answer? If the voting public decides to override public officials on a matter like this, you're basically saying they shouldn't have the "right" to vote the officials out on those grounds. You're basically saying this is some kind of extraordinary policy matter that obviously needs to be insulated from the kind of democratic review pretty much all other municipal policies are subject to. And we're talking about dumping a chemical in the water supply as a substitute for having good public health infrastructure in our country.

If you're a Republican, well, they're inconsistent, evil psychos, I don't expect much from them to make sense. But if you're a Democrat.... if you're a democrat.........

EDIT no really, explain it to me, don't just downvote me. Why should a highly technocratic public health policy that achieves only one public health goal, and isn't even the only way to do it, be beyond democratic review? This literally makes less than no fucking sense. Also, the rules on raw milk and lead in gasoline are also subject to democratic review. They don't get challenged because there are basically no downsides to those policies and literally the only people who are negatively impacted are people invested in the industries in question. People get iffy about fluoridation because there are corner cases that cause problems for individuals, so it's actually a public health tradeoff and you can avoid those tradeoffs with different policies (like universal public health care + fluoridation regimes) -- ie, you can achieve the benefits of fluoridation without negatively impacting anyone. The cost-benefit ratio of water fluoridation is literally different to those other policies, which is why nobody complains about unleaded gasoline but they do complain about fluoridation in water.

If nothing else, does anything strike you as half-cocked about comparing clean, potable, treated drinking water without fluoride to leaded gasoline? Do you refuse to drink un-fluoridated drinking water because of the permanent and irreversible health effects of being exposed to literally any quantity of unfluoridated potable water?

[-] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 17 points 7 months ago

Unfortunately your point is a false agreement. The chemical in question has been studied for decades and has little to no negative impact on general public. A few people don't warrant a total ban. Everything will effect someone at some point. It's science not magic. A better education system and removing pointless arguments ( religion, anti sponsored studies ) would help inform people. I sure most people don't know fluoride is poisonous but so is vitamin D, C, and E. The dose is so high that you would have to eat it like cady straight.

I'm not antidemocratic, though the "let states decide" movement is making me reevaluate that. I'm more of a "let educated and qualified" people have a high stance then "it's turn the frogs gay" crowd. It is a difficult conversation but we have to advance as a society. This is not advancing. Also I agree universal healthcare would be a wonderful, but that shouldn't excuse something that is universal beneficial.

[-] Jarix@lemmy.world 9 points 7 months ago

To add to your reply,

If universal health care is the answer to not putting fluoride in the water, you make the universal health care a reality before you get rid of the thing that it replaces. You didn't get rid of something until you have it covered elsewhere, and even then you need to make sure by giving the new thing time to prove it is as effective as you believe it is going to be before you pull the plug on the thing that is proven to have been effective

[-] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 8 points 7 months ago

Not sure why someone down voted that but I agree. You never remove something until you have a more effective solution in place. That was one of the issues I had with Republicans when it can to the ACA. They destroyed it with nothing to fill the holes. Fucking hate that but I don't expect anything from them.

[-] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 8 points 7 months ago

Yes they should. Ingesting fluoride is bad for you, and it doesn't help your teeth to drink it. That's why small children's toothpaste doesn't have it, because you can't trust them not to eat it. It's only good when applied directly to the teeth, which can be accomplished on a daily basis by using toothpaste with fluoride and/or a mouthwash containing it, both of which you don't drink.

Fluoride is removed from my drinking water by my reverse-osmosis filtration system, along with all the other contaminants like PFAS and lead. I've been drinking fluoride-free water for 10 years, and my teeth are beautiful and healthy. Anyone who drinks bottled water is also probably drinking fluoride-free water since those companies mostly use the same filtration method to produce their bottled water.

[-] Custodian1623@lemmy.world 15 points 7 months ago
[-] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 4 points 7 months ago
[-] Delta_V@lemmy.world 19 points 7 months ago

That's not a peer reviewed study - its somebody's editorialized book report.

[-] RaoulDook@lemmy.world 2 points 7 months ago

Go ahead and review it then - their sources are cited.

Evidence has been presented, whether or not you agree with what it says is irrelevant.

[-] Rentlar@lemmy.ca 18 points 7 months ago

https://www.hindawi.com/journals/tswj/2014/293019/

Link to original article. Cheers to you for citing your sources, but the authors here are massively conflating the effects of industrial fluoride exposure with residential water fluoridation in an attempt to prove a position they began with.

[-] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 4 points 7 months ago* (last edited 7 months ago)

Btw, cooking milk destroys some of the good stuff in it.

Edit: Raw milk has proteins which boost immune system and growth (because it's for baby cows), which break down while cooking.

And yeah, probably don't drink raw milk in US.

[-] Dkarma@lemmy.world 16 points 7 months ago

And all the things that kill you.

[-] MonkderDritte@feddit.de 4 points 7 months ago

Probably a culture and laws difference. Here (swiss) getting raw milk from your local farmer is no problem.

[-] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 4 points 7 months ago

I'm sure small doses of cyanide has benefits too.

[-] bastion@feddit.nl 1 points 7 months ago

Just let them die then, rather than trying to make them age where they don't want to.

[-] Bluefalcon@discuss.tchncs.de 1 points 7 months ago

That is a completely different argument and has nothing to do with the topic.

this post was submitted on 14 Apr 2024
503 points (100.0% liked)

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